Tune in as HAVAN’s Acting CEO Wendy McNeil continues her conversation with Minister of Housing and Municipal Affairs, Ravi Kahlon, who shares his outlook for 2025.
Listen to “Ep 74 Market Update with Minister of Housing and Municipal Affairs Ravi Kahlon – Part 2” on Spreaker.
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About the Speaker
RAVI KAHLON, MINISTER OF HOUSING AND MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS
Ravi Kahlon was elected as the MLA for Delta North in 2017, 2020 and re-elected in 2024. Ravi Kahlon is the Minister of Housing and Municipal Affairs, and previously served as the Minister of Housing, Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation and as the Parliamentary Secretary for Sport and Multiculturalism.
Born and raised in Victoria, Ravi was introduced to field hockey by his father and grandfather. He is a two time Olympian in the sport for Team Canada and has been inducted into the Delta Sports Hall of Fame.
Prior to his election as an MLA, Ravi spent seven years in banking, and another six years working with the New Democrat Caucus as Director of Stakeholder Relations.
Ravi has been active in the North Delta community for many years as a volunteer on the boards of the Delta Parks and Recreation Committee and Men’s High Performance Field Hockey BC.
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Here's the Full Transcript of this Episode
MTCO Ep 74 Minister Kahlon – Part 2
- Wendy McNeil
0:00
Welcome back to HAVAN’s podcast, Measure Twice, Cut Once. I’m Wendy McNeil, Acting CEO of HAVAN, and I’m excited to continue this special series celebrating HAVAN’s 50th anniversary. Today, I am pleased to welcome back the Honourable Ravi Kahlon, Minister of Housing and Municipal Affairs, to continue our discussion on solutions and strategies to address the critical housing supply issue. In our last episode, Minister Kahlon provided reconvenes in 2025 in February and I think we all know that your government will be hitting the ground running. So, what can we expect from your ministry in terms of new legislation? Any insights that you can share?
Ravi Kahlon
0:53
Yeah, I would say that my focus certainly for the next year will be A, to let the legislation that we have settle. Just give some time for everything to be a little bit more certainty for everybody. You know it’s great that we were able to make those changes really quick, but I was really conscious of not making changes all the time because it becomes hard to manage for the entire housing system. And so, I think we need some time for it to settle. And then there’s some local governments that haven’t made the changes, adopted the changes in a way where housing actually can be built. So, I’m going to spend my time on making sure that those changes happen and spend a lot of time on infrastructure. I think infrastructure is going to be a big piece about how infrastructure can enable housing in communities.
So those are going to be some of those spaces that I’m going to particularly put my energy to. You know, I think that it’s going to be vitally important as elections come up for municipalities that housing stay on the forefront as a conversation, that we elect a lot of pro-housing people at local government levels. And not people who just will salute, you know, the provincial government or salute the industry or whatever, those things don’t matter. People who understand that people are struggling for housing and want to be part of the solution. That’s what we need. And so that’ll be a lot of my focus in the next year to two years. And yeah, again, looking forward to getting to work on that.
- Wendy McNeil
2:26
That’s great. Then, just kind of doing a bit of a deeper dive and maybe chat about the two legislations that came in as you mentioned, the transit-oriented developments and the small-scale unit housing. We heard early on or actually right about yesterday, I believe, is that the City of Vancouver has been getting some good take up on the SHMOOZ, which is the acronym means and about 270 applications totaling about 1100 units, which is really positive and more than I think that was anticipated, most of which are three-bedroom, four-bedroom, so really family-oriented sizes. So, what do you think about this uptake and other developments across the region?
- Ravi Kahlon
3:10
Yeah, I’m starting to see it in many places, you know, if you look at the housing starts numbers, what you’ll notice is that the larger projects, the larger developments are slowing down, especially for sale ones and we’re seeing an increase in purpose-built rentals, but we’re seeing a lot of communities in Metro Vancouver across the province seeing a significant increase in housing starts and they’re seeing them in the small-scale multi-unit housing space, in the, you know, three plex, triplexes, four plexes. And that’s, I think, a great interest of a lot of people because that’s who can afford it, right? That’s who’s going to be accessible. I would say that there are some local governments who have still put barriers in the way, too much parking requirements, not enough height in buildings, not allowing strata of units. I think those are things that we’re going to be looking to address with local governments because the truth is not many people can afford to build a fourplex and want to be landlords and renting out three units. We need to be able to allow those units to be stratified so they can be sold as individual units because that’s more accessible to a lot of families.
And I think for neighbourhoods, it’s always good to have people who live there, who are invested in the community. And so those are some of the pieces I’m going to put a lot of energy on with local governments. Burnaby did a good change with their small-scale multi-units, and you know I’m hoping communities do something similar across the board. But a lot of our infrastructure is going to be tied to local governments doing that work.
And so, you know if you’re allowing housing to be built then we’re going to encourage you by supporting with infrastructure and so that’s what people can expect from us in the coming years when it comes to enabling more housing.
- Wendy McNeil
4:55
Yeah, I think some of the challenges I think are surrounding the small-scale multi-units is securing financing. So I think that is, will the ministry kind of help with creating more opportunity to access it because I think there’s a lot of interest especially with, as you said, the kind of mortgage helpers in that sense or even multi-generational housing, but with the barriers especially on the financing side, it can be really challenging to kind of move forward.
- Wendy McNeil
5:23
So, is your ministry going to be looking at that to work with the financial institutions?
- Ravi Kahlon
5:29
We have been meeting with a lot of financial institutions. In fact, I will be meeting with them in the coming weeks as well to talk about what they can do, what barriers they see that are in place from government that could maybe help unlock that. There is an interest.
I think some of the larger finance institutions, they’re countrywide, and so it’s hard for them to think about one market. But our credit unions, I think, is going to be a place, I think, where there’s going to be a lot of opportunities because they’re BC-focused, and now they see that in their entire market. I mean, this is coming across the country. Yeah. You know, as much as Ontario and other jurisdictions are fighting, and I know the mayor of Ontario, the premier of Ontario said something about four plexes, like they were going to destroy every community.
And it’s like, well, first off, that’s not true. You know, they can be built in a way that, you know, be part of vibrant, healthy communities. But it’s also, it’s coming. It’s coming around, like Colorado, Washington State, Oregon, California, you know, you just name it, Austin, Texas, every jurisdiction is moving in this direction. And so, I think the financial institutions would be wise to get ahead of it with their products. But we are having those conversations, we do know that’s a bit of a barrier. Also, insurance industry, I think, just needs to be brought up to speed about what’s happening. So, we’re looking both at a policy perspective, but also what institutions can do to be able to, you know, have money flow. We’re also meeting with the federal government to talk to CMHC about whether they can put flexibility in their programming to allow for these types of houses to be built. So yeah, it’s very much on our minds. I don’t have an easy solution that will solve it, but we are focused on trying to enable this type of housing to be built.
- Wendy McNeil
7:16
I think I remember when I used to live downtown, and Mole Hill was built up with many units and it was such a beautiful space to have densification without looking like a densified area. So, it can work, and I think it’s just people can embrace it. It’s not going to be on every lot, but I think it just enhances, as you said, the neighborhoods and the communities and the commercial space even that kind of grows into those spaces.
- Ravi Kahlon
7:44
Yeah, exactly. And I always said to folks that if you have a neighborhood and you don’t have kids anymore, that’s not a healthy community. It’s quiet. Yeah, it’s a quiet community. It’s quiet, but it’s not healthy.
You need kids. You need that intergenerational living. And so, we have a lot of communities where there’s no kids anymore. There’s local governments that are looking to make decisions about closing schools down because there’s no kids left in the neighborhood. That’s expensive for us as a province.
Shut the school down, figure out what we’re going to do with land, go somewhere else, build another school. It’s actually better planning to actually allow for different generations of families to live together. And so, yeah, I think this is a healthy transition to what is going to be the new norm. And so, I’m not saying single-family homes are done.
If people want them, they can afford them, they will still be built. But we need to have a variety of type of housing available for people.
- Wendy McNeil
8:35
Kind of that continuum as you spoke about earlier, right? Turning towards the federal election, I think we all are anticipating 2025 will be the year. And federal conservative leader Pierre Poilievre had proposed removing GST on new homes under $1 million and challenged provincial governments to also follow suit with their portion of taxes. So, he suggested that this funding for this policy will be by redirecting money from the Housing Accelerator Fund and the Canada Housing Infrastructure Fund. And while it outwardly benefits consumers, it could leave municipalities short on funding on the critical infrastructure piece that we’ve talked about. So, what are your thoughts on this?
- Ravi Kahlon
9:15
Well, I don’t think it’s a viable solution to solve the housing crisis, to be honest. I thought that the Federal Conservatives early on did have some creative ideas, and I’m hoping that there’ll be a good debate from all the political parties on solutions. I don’t think the GST piece in itself, it’s a good slogan, it gets people’s attention. Yes, there’s cost pressures for projects to be built and so it may help some, but I don’t think it’s the one solution that will solve all the problem. It could be part of it. And so, you know, I think we need multi-pronged approach to it. Yes, cost pressures are one. You know, I hear from mayors who say, yeah, you get rid of that, you don’t give us money for infrastructure, who’s going to want more housing? And I can tell you, I just went through an election where people want to see infrastructure being built. And so, to suggest that somehow, we’re just going to reduce the GST, and by the way, it doesn’t have as much impact in BC compared to other provinces because we already exempt PST on a lot of things, especially the transfer of properties for purpose-built rentals. It will have an impact, but I think to have a solution that doesn’t address infrastructure, that doesn’t address affordable housing, I haven’t heard them talking about affordable housing because the market can’t deliver for some people. There’s a part of our population that the market can’t deliver, not because they don’t want to, it’s just not possible, right? Land value, cost of construction. So, the suggestion that government can just get out of the way and somehow the problem will solve itself is just not true.
It’s going to require both. It’s going to require industry to be unlocked to be able to build housing. It’s going to require the province to work with industry and not-for-profits to build housing for a segment of the population that the market can’t reach and so I am hoping for a serious conversation on housing, but I just don’t know if that will happen. Usually, elections get some slogans and people vote for who they want.
- Wendy McNeil
11:22
It’s catchy.
- Ravi Kahlon
11:23
We got to get to that soon.
- Wendy McNeil
11:25
Yeah. I am talking a little bit, sorry, going back to the TOA, I don’t think I actually dived on that. So, in those areas, there is designated kind of rings of distance from the transit center and is there any consideration in expanding this kind of radius out a bit more to allow for more justification even closer within maybe a kilometer or more?
- Ravi Kahlon
11:53
Not at this point. We are not looking to expand beyond the 800 meters. We have to first get the 800 meters done properly. I see lots of opportunities in the 400-to-800-meter space. Because the truth is, New York SkyTrain, within the 400 meters, the market’s already been adjusting. They already have an understanding that there’s going to be towers there, there’s going to be buildings there. That 400-to-800-meter space, where you’re able to do six stories, that’s where I think we’re going to see the biggest potential for housing. Especially now with single egress stairs, means that you don’t have to assemble as many parcels. You are able to build in a narrower lot and still get units and a product up. And so, the biggest focus on TOAs or the transfer-oriented areas is going to be the implementation and not the expansion at this point. And you know, like I said, with all the items, it’s really going to be implementation for the next year. We got to really push things. People say to me the intention was there, but it didn’t really land exactly the way people wanted to land. And so, my job in the next year will be to make sure it landed the way we want it to land. Nice. Okay.
- Wendy McNeil
13:02
And I think that it would be interesting to see hopefully more applications coming in to help that density. And again, it’s not just having one type of housing, it’s delivering a whole bunch of middle, you know, missing middle and other pieces, depending on what stage you are in your own, I guess, housing needs life sort of thing.
- Ravi Kahlon
13:23
Yeah. And I’ll say that when I first brought the changes in, there were some people who raised concerns, came by office and this and that. And I remember talking to the person during the election who said, you know, I didn’t like it in the beginning, but I kind of like it now because my kids don’t have a place to live, and now I’m thinking about developing my place, and then my kids could live in the same parcel, and I was like, yeah, that’s what we’re trying to get at, right? Intergenerational living, it’s a healthy thing, you know, to have families living together. People that are close to retirement are like, yeah, you know what, maybe I can build four units, I can stay in one, then I can stay in my neighborhood. Because if you sell your home, where are you going to go? You’re going to have to go somewhere. And if you’re going to be able to stay in the same neighborhood, and then also get some of your money out so that you can enjoy retirement, it’s a win-win. And so, we are seeing a transition in people’s mindsets on this conversation, but we knew when we first started it that it was going to be a tough one for some. But over time, I think people are starting to come around. It’s not perfect yet, but we’ve made a lot of progress,
- Wendy McNeil
14:29
I think. Yeah, I think that’s what you said, like it’s what you see a lot of the nimbyism, like not in my backyard mentality, but you’re right. If it means that family can stay closer for longer amounts of time, it makes sense.
- Wendy McNeil
14:41
And as you said, as people kind of go through that, maybe that need, they’re more accepting of it. So, it’s good to see it’s positive.
- Ravi Kahlon
14:48
Yeah, and you know, for some people, nothing will ever be good enough. It’s just the idea, right? Yeah, that’s true. I learned that in politics early on. You can’t make everybody happy.
- Ravi Kahlon
14:57
You just can’t. You know, like there was a project in the news the other day, Central Saanich, where there was a proponent came in with the Legion to build housing for veterans and health care workers, affordable housing. Gosh. The community was up in roar against it.
- Ravi Kahlon
15:12
And it’s like at some point we got to figure out a way to say yes. We got to find a way to say yes, you know, and if we can’t approve housing for veterans.
- Wendy McNeil
15:20
Yeah, that’s a good.
- 3
15:22
We’re in trouble everywhere.
- Wendy McNeil
15:24
So, it’s going to be a long conversation, and we wish you best of luck in the next four years and hopefully longer, who knows. But really appreciate your open candor and your questions, your answers to our questions because I think this is going to be a continued topic as we move forward. Housing is such an essential part of everyone’s lives and whether it’s rental, it’s condo
- Wendy McNeil
15:46
living, it’s single-family living, it’s a need that we need to address, and we appreciate you working on it and keeping us informed what’s going on and we look forward to reconnecting again and talking about what’s going on as a status update maybe in a little time.
- Ravi Kahlon
16:00
Yeah, awesome. Looking forward to it and hopefully see you at the awards.
- Wendy McNeil
16:04
Yes, yes. Your invitation is still there. Awesome.
- Ravi Kahlon
16:07
Appreciate it.
- Wendy McNeil
16:08
Thank you so much, Ravi. All right. Thanks so much, Ravi. Thanks to you so much. I’m Wendy McNeil and I look forward to continuing the series of conversations as we explore innovative solutions to BC’s housing challenges.
- Wendy McNeil
16:17
For notes and links to resources mentioned in today’s episode, including those shared by Minister Callan, please visit www.HAVAN.ca/measuretwicecutonce and we look forward to having you join us at the next episode.