Luxury Homes and budgets don’t go hand in hand – or do they? Troy Van Vliet of TAVAN Developments shares his strategies for staying on budget when building luxury homes in Vancouver’s high end market.
Listen to “Ep 71: Luxury Homes” on Spreaker.
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Co-Host, Mike Freedman, AI Technology & Design
Production: Rami Films
Distributed by Black Press Media: Today in BC.
About the Speaker
TROY VAN VLIET, PRINCIPAL, TAVAN GROUP
Troy’s love of design and building started at an early age working for his father’s construction company. Very much a “hands-on” guy, he worked on many residential and commercial projects. With a love for geometry, drafting and art as a student and growing up watching his parents building their own homes, it only seemed natural to try to build his own home. This started a life-long love of design and construction, inspired to make every element that goes into the final result, the very best possible! He attended UBC on a football scholarship and was drafted to the BC Lions. For many years he has led companies that were based on strong people-relationships, and of which he prides himself today with the Tavan Group. Troy has always understood the importance of being a confident leader and surrounding yourself with good people. Troy’s entrepreneurial spirit, his commitment to quality and fine craftsmanship and his passion for building and design have proved to be the success of the Tavan Group.
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Check out photos of the HAVAN Award-winning project Shaughnessy Renaissance !
Here's the Full Transcript of this Episode
MTCO Ep 71 TAVAN Developments Transcript
- Jennifer Lee
0:00
Mike, so excited to be here with you today. I love the fact people can’t see unless they’re watching the video version, but we’re matching today.
- Mike
0:10
Well, that’s a great segue to all our people listening to the podcast. This is also available in video. What a great opportunity for you to start watching us as well as listening to us. But hey, Jennifer, how are you?
- Jennifer Lee
0:19
Good. And they can see our stylish wardrobe choices today.
- Mike
0:23
Absolutely. Really excited to be here again. We always have such a great conversation when we’re in the studio, and we have such great guests. And you know, today is absolutely no different.
- Jennifer Lee
0:34
Yeah, today we have Troy Van Vliet, and he is the principal at Tavan Developments.
- 5
0:40
Look, I got that.
- Jennifer Lee
0:41
Nailed it. Yeah, I nailed it, yes. And Troy is wearing a beautiful beige number today. He said, someone said today that we look kind of like an Oreo cookie because Mike’s in black and I’m in black. So, you know, it’s how it goes. I like the symmetry myself.
- Mike
0:59
I think we did this on purpose. Makes our guests feel comfortable. Speaking of our guests, we should probably ask him some questions too. Of course, we have the privilege of having Troy on with us today. First time. First time, absolutely. In my introduction to his company, we all know what this company does but my introduction to your company was during the Havan Awards when literally every seven to ten minutes Your team members went up to accept one of many awards.
- Mike
1:27
So first of all, congratulations, but two so awesome to have you here because I think there’s a lot, we’re going to learn from you today.
- Jennifer Lee
1:32
So actually, I was sitting at Troy’s table, and I was sitting with all those team members, and I was like giving them water because I was like you guys must be exhausted every time you keep going up to get an award. So, it was a really amazing night, and I was able to interview a few of them too on the little red carpet that I was doing. But again, congratulations you guys definitely deserve it. Long history of building and you do some great projects.
TROY
Thank you. thank you very much and thanks for having me here today. It’s an honor and a privilege to be here.
- Mike
1:56
Well, we’re really excited because you know, everyone we have on has a very unique perspective and a different perspective and I’m really excited to learn some stuff from you today. But before we get too deep into what you’re doing right now, can you take a few steps back and tell us where it all began? How did you get started in this? Is this something you just fell into naturally? Let’s talk a little bit more about your journey.
- Troy
2:20
towards being a multiple award winner. Sure, thank you. I’ll try and give you the Coles-notes version because my family history in construction is quite long and vast. My dad was one of 10 brothers that all immigrated one at a time from the Netherlands. And they followed their oldest brother, my uncle Neil, who moved here first. And he set up van construction. So, he was an engineer, and he set up van construction and they did mostly commercial and institutional work, infrastructure work as well, a lot of large construction projects. So, one at a time as his brothers immigrated to Canada, it was to Alberta at first, they all joined van construction. So, at one point there were 10 brothers, all partners in the same company, which is kind of crazy when you think about it, but and it worked, it worked back then. And probably one of the most notable things that they built was a Macmillan Bloedel Conservatory. So, there’s a, well, I’ll say a famous picture, but a famous picture of all 10 brothers after the project, sitting in front of the conservatory on one of the stone walls that borders the conservatory. And yeah, all 10 brothers are in that photo and that photo still hangs today up in the conservatory. So, it’s still up in there. And it’s been over 50 years now since that project was done. Wow. Yeah. It’s a staple. Gotta love going to see the birds in there. Yeah, so that’s part of the history and my dad and one of his brothers, my uncle Paul, they ended up splitting off eventually and they started their own construction company. It was called Double V Construction for Van Vliet and that company is still run today by my cousin, Glenn, and they still do commercial and institutional work, a lot of that. And so, but I didn’t get into family business. Although I grew up in it, I worked in it and didn’t get, you know, and as the son of one of the bosses, you know, you usually get one of two things. You either get all the real cushy jobs because you’re the son, or you get the opposite, which is all the real horrible jobs that they can’t get anybody else to do. So that’s how we grew up is doing all the horrible jobs nobody else got to do. So, my introduction to construction wasn’t that great. I didn’t really think that I would be doing it long term. And so, through high school and university, you know, summer jobs, stuff like that, that’s what we got to do. And so, I didn’t get formally into construction right away. I eventually, after buying my first home, which was a long time ago, started doing some renovating to it. It was actually a new home with an unfinished basement and knowing what I, you know, having known what I did in construction or learned in construction at a young age, I just finished the basement myself and then sold it and then did it again and then did it again. And so, that was just on my own personal homes until eventually set up my own company in construction and development which is what I really aspire to and got into custom home building as well. Once again, majority of it all in the luxury side of homes, majority of it on the west side of Vancouver.
And that just seems to be where most of our business is. We’re kind of prominent there. And but we do build in other areas around the lower mainland as well. And we’ve also expanded, we’re getting into some multifamily side of things, and we’ve got some other projects on the go too. So, how’s that for a quick overview?
- Jennifer Lee
6:31
That’s a great overview. I was like, you brought that memory because I grew up in a family construction company as well. And it’s true, the jobs that you get aren’t glamorous. My brother got thrown the side at 14 and was like, push a broom. And then my mom was like, you can come work in the office for me. And then when you screw up something in the office, your mother is knocking on the door of your bedroom door at 7 in the morning. So good thing you stuck with it, and you went into construction because of course I’ve seen your signs around the Shaughnessy area many times and other parts of Vancouver and I think it’s a true testament to you and your quality and everything like that. Which brings us to the next thing, Mike and I talked about it, you won a lot of awards which was amazing. Let’s talk a little bit about them. All seven of them. All seven of them. Let’s talk a little bit about them. All seven of them. Best kitchen renovation. Let’s start with that one. 175,000 and over Shaughnessy residents. This one or Shaughnessy Renaissance. This one won quite a few actually. So, we also run best character home renovation, best renovation 1.5 million and over, best new or renovated space as well, and best interior design renovated home. So, this one was kind of your, I don’t know, is it appropriate to say granddaddy of awards, but tell us a little bit about the project.
- Troy
7:54
Definitely, it was in the zoning which at the time was RS3A and all those zonings in Vancouver have changed now to all R1 ones now I think it’s called, which is a lot more friendly to get permits in now. It’s a lot simpler. So, this one had a character merit, so which meant you got some bonus density if you kept the old house and renovated, added on to it. So, which is what we did because it would have been probably 3,000 square feet smaller had we just torn it down and then built a new house. So, that was the motivation for keeping the old house. It wasn’t because it had some incredible design elements that, you know, the owner wanted to maintain. It wasn’t because of that. And it wasn’t because renovating was cheaper than building brand new. It definitely wasn’t because of that. So, it was simply to get the extra square footage. So, and we could quite frankly work with the old architecture and drastically improve on it, which is what we did. And that included stripping the old house down to, literally down to the studs. And so, there was, and ripping the roof off and lifting it in the air, taking the old foundation out, moving the house to accommodate for some extra square footage and then added on about another extra 60% square footage to the old home. And that also included… Now, when you do a renovation like this, you’re supposed to keep, I believe the number is 40% of the existing house or you have to keep 60% of the existing house, of the structure. So, now one of the challenges was with this one, this was a really difficult thing is the ceiling heights were kind of wonky in this house. Like they were really low on the main floor. But we had to keep that upper floor ceiling, we couldn’t get rid of it because we needed that lumber to reach our 60%. So what we ended up doing is we cut out the floor, the entire floor in two pieces and jacked it up inside the house and then reattached it and re-supported it from the exterior just so that we could keep the old lumber, because you know, with the old joists, we had to put new ones beside every single one. Same thing with every stud in the wall, we had to put new studs beside it. So, we didn’t save any lumber by renovating this house, but in order, once again, it was to meet what the city’s requirements were of keeping the character. And that’s a hard part. Obviously, we’ve got to follow rules and the regulations and things like that, but sometimes, depending on to the condition of the home that you have been given and like just everything is a little bit hard to navigate. And if you’re the homeowner, you don’t necessarily understand. You just think like, oh, hey, I can build this house, or I can do this, and I want to do this. But that’s why it’s so important to have a builder that is so versed in the rules and regulations for the area you’re building in.
- Mike
11:40
Yeah, well it also speaks to the caliber of people you hire as well because anyone who’s ever done any level of renovation knows that as soon as you open the walls you can plan and predict as much as you want. We don’t know what’s behind those walls until we know what’s behind those walls. Surprise! Exactly, well these are the words we never want to hear as homeowners getting a renovation in the process.
- Jennifer Lee
11:58
And you know, sometimes you do have to do surprises. You’ve got to go to the clang and you’re like, what?
- Troy
12:02
Yeah, exactly.
- Mike
12:03
Well, I remember doing our renovation, our builder going, I got to show you something. That was usually a short for, I’m going to need another $10,000. So, I do want to talk to you about the awards themselves. Because first of all, to win that many awards.
- Mike
12:15
is not common, and it is a very special achievement, and it’s certainly something that deserves our applause and our respect, all of us, for what you’ve done. And any of us who have ever won awards know what they mean to us, but I want from you what those awards mean to you.
- Mike
12:33
as a company, like you’re already an established, well-respected company, so what do those awards mean to you at this point in your career and your company’s lifespan?
- Troy
12:40
Yeah, I can try and be humble with this in saying that we, over the years, we’ve got many awards and you know why do we keep you know trying to improve on that or continue to get more awards it’s like we’re a proven company but construction as we know development building it’s changing as fast as the technology is today you know you buy a new phone today and it’s already outdated and construction is changing that fast as well so and zonings are So, and zonings are changing, bylaws are changing, building codes are changing, everything is changing. So, part of being in the awards is letting the public or future clients know that, hey, look, we’re still in the game, we’re still on top of it, we’re still a company that, you know, you should consider when it comes to building a new home or renovating a home. So, that’s that kind of sends a message out that, hey, we still know what we’re doing and we’re somebody that you should consider. So, that’s a it’s a really big part and when the awards are displayed in our in our office and so when our clients come in to meet us for the first time, they see that, oh, you know, they’re established and they know what they’re doing and, hey, we should probably listen to these guys.
- Jennifer Lee
14:10
I’ve seen them, they’re impressive, but who has to wipe them down and dust them all the time?
- Troy
14:15
Yeah, I know, well fortunately that’s not me.
- Mike
14:20
As you said earlier, it’s usually the children of the builder who have to do those jobs.
- Troy
14:24
There’s a minor just coming of age now where we can get them to do that.
- Jennifer Lee
14:28
I would love your non-humble answer but I know that you’re a very humble person you guys deserve it and that is a big reason why you’ve also got I kind of say it’s like the Oscars of Havans it’s the Grand Havans not everyone can apply for these they’re really big deal you have to have so there’s so many criteria for them and you won for residential renovator of the year. What does that mean for you?
- Troy
14:52
Well, once again, that’s a great feather in our cap when it comes to when we’re being interviewed, you know talking about money if you have people don’t like budget no and if you if you have an unlimited budget it doesn’t really happen but I think in our career with all the homes we’ve built everybody has always had a budget doesn’t matter how wealthy they are they always have a budget they also they always have a target that they’re trying to hit and so that poses one of the biggest challenges, but when you get a big award like that, it’s sort of, I think the clients, you know, when you’re really sitting down having a serious talk about budgets, they can be comforted that you know what you’re talking about, you know, and especially when early on because when you’re competing for a contract, builders can throw out all kinds of numbers. They can just say, you know, I can tell you what you want to hear, or I can tell you exactly what I believe it’s going to cost. And quite often that’s two different things. Actually, all the time, that’s two different things. Because everybody coming in to build it, when they’re interviewing you, they come in with this preconceived notion that it’s somehow going to be a lot less than what it is really going to be. And I think that actually costs us some jobs, unfortunately, because we might be too honest up front to say like, look, this is really what it’s going to cost. And so, some clients will end up going with somebody else because they may just have a lower budget. And it’s not, it doesn’t mean anything other than the paper it’s written on, and you know, if nothing’s been designed yet, if nothing’s come up.
- Jennifer Lee
17:00
So, there’s other things too that people don’t put in consideration, but I know you guys do, because you’re so established as a fact too, as we mentioned before in Vancouver, things are changing. Time, permits take a long time to get, which means sometimes the things you spec, some of the products, everything like that, they can change in price by the time that it’s ready to go. And that’s something you really have to be honest with. And we had that happen on projects, especially when wood was doing its dance up and down. And that can really affect it.
Jennifer Lee
17:32
So, it’s really hard to be like, your house is going to cost this much and then it’s done in four years. And there’s so many variables, but that’s why you need a contractor to be really honest and be like, this is what it’s going to be like, I’m going to try to work my hardest on your budget, but I can’t guarantee you.
- Mike
17:44
Yeah, that’s why you need these awards to show that you are honest, because not everybody wins these awards. Think about how many people are building and renovating houses in the lower mainland and how many tens of thousands of houses they built.
- Mike
17:54
So, when you can say you’re the best of the best, that means a lot and it really helps set you apart from some of the other people. Speaking of setting you apart from some of the other people, we want to talk a little about the types of homes that you build. But before we do that, we have to take just two moments to thank our amazing podcast sponsor. So, we’ll be right back.
- Jennifer Lee
18:17
We’re going to deep dive into luxury and luxury home construction. All right, bring it on.
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- Mike
19:43
All right, welcome back. And you know, we are going to talk about something really exciting, that is luxury homes. And there’s two reasons I’m excited. First of all, it’s inspiring for me to keep working harder because I want one like that one day. But two, and this is most important, I come from the technology industry. What was considered luxury technology five years ago is now considered mainstream technology. So, the important takeaway from all this is some of the things that you’re doing right now are going to scale their way down into houses that are more common and more affordable for people. So, can you give me your first, I just want to hear a high level over you, what do you consider luxury to be? Is it a matter of price? Is it a matter of materials? Is it finish? What is luxury?
- Troy
20:25
Yeah, that’s a great question. Earlier on when we started building like homes for other people, you’d think a million-dollar budget was luxury. You know, it’s like, we’re spending a million dollars. Like this is, this we’re expecting the best of the best of the best. That’s an entry level condo. Unfortunately, yeah. Like that is, that doesn’t buy you much anymore. We, yeah, there’s, you know, people come to us, and they ask us, you know, well, how much does it cost to build a house today? And the common reaction was, how much does a car cost? I said, well, there’s a huge range, you know, and in Vancouver, for us, our starting cost per square foot is probably about $500. That’s not luxury. That’s a good house, but it’s not luxury.
- Troy
21:13
It’s not what we would deem as luxury. You know, you can buy flooring for, well, three, four dollars a square foot, let’s say, for some kind of entry-level hardwood, and that’s really entry-level, and you know, we spend twenty dollars or twenty-five dollars a square foot on hardwood as well. So, there’s a huge range. So, it’s kind of, what is luxury it’s sort of in the eyes of the beholder I suppose but we’re probably saying you’re hitting in a luxury market between 600 and 800 dollars a square foot you’re probably somewhere in there and then of course it goes way above that it goes way beyond that the sky’s the limit so we’ve of course we build homes for a lot more than that but that’s kind of it’s kind of probably where our average is for a single family in in Vancouver
- Jennifer Lee
22:06
See, I love this conversation. This is my wheelhouse. This is what I grew up. Because this is exactly what my family did so I totally understand it and it’s interesting to have those conversations with people because even when I’ve talked to my friends that want like a bathroom right now, it’s like a simple bathroom I was like could be anywhere from 30,000 to 50,000 They’re like what and it’s a yeah, and they’re like, but I just want it. And I said, I know, it’s just the problem is the cost of things are so much, especially appliances or paint. And it depends on your finish. If you want really basic, like you said, like linoleum or something, then that’s different. But it comes down to the cost of the materials you want.
- Mike
22:41
Well, in amongst all that is also reputable tradespeople and a good company to manage the project as well. It’s not just materials that we’re paying for. And you get what you pay for in this industry.
- Jennifer Lee
22:51
But that’s the problem, Troy, you probably see a lot of it too, especially in the luxury market is that a lot of people have access to things like Pinterest and Instagram, things that we went into before, and they are seeing luxury home pictures of homes that you build or my family’s going to build or people in LA, and they’re thinking that’s for the average person. And then they come back, and they say, well, I want this.
- Jennifer Lee
23:13
And you’re like, well, that’s actually going to be like,
- Troy
23:15
yeah, they’re just like, what really?
- Troy
23:18
They, the people are blown away by how much things cost. And, um, we nine times out of 10 are 99 times out of a hundred. We do, um, run an open book type of contract with our clients. So, um, we do it based on cost plus. So, and our cost, we pass on a hundred percent of our costs. Like we don’t, there’s no hidden markups or anything like that. I’ve said this all along to all of our people that work with us too, I want to be able to sleep at night. And so, I want to know if I’m negotiating on behalf of our client, which is who we are truly working for. We don’t represent our trades or our suppliers, we represent our client to our trades and suppliers. And that’s something that we’ve made very clear to our trades and suppliers as well. So, we’re negotiating on behalf of the client. So, when I’m working on getting the best price for the client, I pass on a hundred percent of that to the client. And we find that works the best. So, and then it gets plugged into the budget numbers that we that we come up with.
- Mike
24:24
Well, I’m glad you said that actually because for me I’m much newer in this industry than you guys are. And one of the most shocking things to me was when I started trying to find partners to work with. Yeah. I get this conversation.
- Mike
24:36
So, where’s my kickback?
- 5
24:37
Yeah, that’s scary.
- Mike
24:38
And that was, it wasn’t just scary, it was quite an ethical conflict for me because any of us who lead with integrity have a hard time with that. But if we want to know where a lot of these hidden construction costs come from, it’s a lack of transparency. So, I’m really glad you brought that up because at your level, if you’re capable of maintaining open book transparency, that is entirely possible for anyone at any level to do that. And that is what we as homeowners should be expecting. And so, I’m glad you’re doing that.
- Troy
25:07
No, absolutely. And there has to be a level of confidence between you and your client, because that question does get asked every now and then by our clients, you know, as you’re getting interviewed, they’re saying, well, how do we know you’re not getting a kickback? And I was like, well, be quite honest that you don’t.
- Troy
25:22
You’re not going to know that. I’m telling you that we don’t do that. And like I said, I want to be able to sleep at night, not knowing that you’re going to go to the same supplier and get a better deal than what we’ve shown you. Like we’re giving you the best price, you know, and nobody’s getting a better deal on tile than we’re getting. Nobody’s getting a deeper discount on lumber than we’re getting. So, I would just as soon rather pass it all on to you and then you’ll see what our markup is and that’s it. If you’re not confident with it, if the client’s not confident with you in that, if they don’t trust you, well, there’s no point in going any further. There has to be that confidence and trust between you and the homeowner. Otherwise, you’ve got nothing. So that’s definitely something that you want to have worked out right away.
- Troy
26:10
And, uh, and once again, that’s part of it, you know, and if you’re not getting the warm and fuzzies from your architect or your interior designer or your builder, then you, chances are you probably should not be working with them. If you don’t feel that there’s that level of trust, there.
- Mike
26:24
The one thing I’ve learned is that it’s almost like a marriage. If you don’t pick the right partner, you’re not going to have a good experience, and you think about someone like yourself. If I’m lucky enough to be able to build the type of homes you build, we’re going to be working together for two, three, possibly four years. So, we better trust each other, we better have integrity, better be able to get along and we better be able to solve any challenges that may come up with an open relationship. And that is a template no matter what level of home you’re building, you should be expecting that.
- Troy
26:55
Yeah. There’s going to be some bumps along the road, just like in any marriage. You know, there’s some bumps along the road. There’s some prizes that will come up. There’s mistakes that are going to happen. I mean, construction is riddled with mistakes.
- Troy
27:08
The only thing you can try and do is mitigate as many of them as possible. And in cost plus, you’re also realizing that if we’re going to pass along 100% of the cost, there’s cost of some mistakes as well, which once again, you’re representing the client. So, if one of your trades makes mistakes and you know who it is, you can usually get compensated. But it’s when some of the mistakes happen and nobody can point any fingers at how it actually happened or there’s no evidence, that’s actually an unfortunate cost. That’s part of doing it that way.
- 9
27:47
And it’s hard.
- Jennifer Lee
27:47
Things arrive to the set, we’re not a movie set, but arrive to the site and sometimes they’re damaged and no one knows about it because until they unpackage them. And then it’s hard to sometimes even be like, well, when did it get damaged? Did it get damaged lifting up the truck? Like there’s a lot of things that you really need a good contractor to kind of be, kind of, not your lawyer, but they’re kind of like your backup a little bit.
- Troy
28:12
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Clients want to, they want to know that you got their back as best as you possibly can. Now, they’re not paying you to be there 24 hours a day monitoring the site and making, and if they were, then that’s a line item that’s going to blow the budget out of whack too. So, there’s that balance always between, yeah, we’re going to monitor everything as best we possibly can while also keeping an eye on the budget to make sure that, you know, your management isn’t getting out of control there either.
- Mike
28:42
I’ve got a question. We were talking earlier about luxury and even earlier about that, you were saying you’re getting to some multifamily. So how does what you do in those larger projects scale down to multifamily? Because really this is where we’re going to go as a market.
- Mike
28:59
So, what you’re doing right now is probably going to be fairly commonplace the next three to five years. How do you shrink luxury so it’s still luxury, but it still reflects the needs of the homeowner for that particular project?
- Troy
29:06
Well, you can do that in smaller spaces because not all the houses that we build, first of all, are huge. Like some of them are really small and we’ve done some renovations,
- Troy
29:15
some award-winning renovations on smaller townhouses and smaller homes. So, depending on you know if we’ve got the manpower available, we’ll take on some of the smaller projects as well. So, it’s the same, sometimes we’re trying to do the look for less, we’re always trying to do the look for less, I’ll be honest you know because everybody always wants it to be less. So, we’re always trying to do it as efficiently as possible.
- Jennifer Lee
29:40
It’s like the fashion hunters that show you one brand, like the luxury brand, and then how do you do it for less?
- Troy
29:45
Yeah, exactly. And there is a way, you know, I use flooring as an example. Not everybody’s going to notice a $25 square foot floor. Like, you know, they might notice it somewhat, but the difference between that and a $8 square foot floor might not be that noticeable. So those are, you know, so there’s strategies involved with trying to get that look for less. The same thing can be said for windows, you know, how much do people actually notice windows? Well, when you’re building a home and you have these options put in front of you, now the homeowners maybe have never looked at a window before in their lives and now all of a sudden everything that matters is windows and you kind of got to bring them back to reality. It’s like, look, you didn’t know about windows beforehand. Nobody’s going to notice your windows.
- Jennifer Lee
30:32
But you might feel them. My advice is get good windows.
- 11
30:35
Get good windows, yeah, well absolutely.
- Jennifer Lee
30:36
Because my windows feel like a windstorm’s coming through the glass.
- Troy
30:38
Yeah, no, no, no, no. Well, we don’t let that happen ever. But there are certain things that, you know, people don’t have unlimited budgets. So having experience, and you know, and I’ve lived in, not only I’ve built many homes for myself, but I’ve lived in a lot of different homes. So, I’ve lived in a lot of floor plans that kind of work, well, that I think work really efficiently and that work really well. And others that just, they’re a dog’s breakfast, you know, and it’s like, okay, this works. And having lived in many homes, I kind of know what sort of lighting systems that I use, you know, so I would be able to express that.
- Troy
31:16
I know having lived in and sold many homes, what kind of windows people notice, what ones they don’t care about. So, you can kind of make note of that. It’s like, look, this is something that people really look for. This is something they don’t really care about.
- Jennifer Lee
31:32
So, when they’re buying a home, let’s say for instance. How do you balance a price and durability because some of the cheaper products might not last longer and it depends if you have a lot of kids, do you have dogs, what is your lifestyle like within the home?
- Troy
31:44
Yeah, no, that’s a conversation we have often with our clients. There’s a certain level of quality that we don’t go below. Like if somebody says, well, I got 200 bucks a square foot to build a house with, we’re not your guy because you’re going to, that house, I’m not saying it’s going to fall apart, it’s not going to last and you’re not going to get some of the durability that you really you should have. So, there is a certain level that we don’t go below and we’re usually up front about that. So, if somebody does come in and say they’ve got an unrealistically low price per square foot, we just say, yeah,
- Troy
32:16
I can’t help you. So, things that matter, you know, your average consumer today doesn’t, what is it made out of? It’s like, well, we make ours all out of plywood. We just, that’s just something we insist on because, you know, doors, cabinet doors opening, closing all the time, it puts all kinds of torque on the hinges, it puts all, and the screws going into the wood. And if you’ve got the typical particle board that is used in probably 80% of cabinets out there, they eventually fall apart, and your doors are falling off and you know that’s it might be 10 years down the road. It’s not that massive of an upgrade to change the plywood but we recommend it just on the basis that yeah, it might cost you 10-15% more but now you’ve got a great cabinet box instead of you know. So those are little things that we kind of insist on to make sure that we don’t want those callbacks. We don’t want that happening. And you got a leak under your sink and now all your particle board is all swollen up and it just looks like a dog’s breakfast under there.
- Jennifer Lee
33:30
Yeah, that sounds like a bad phone call to have.
- Troy
33:33
Yeah, so we just, there’s things like that that we just don’t go below some certain levels of quality.
- Jennifer Lee
33:40
There you go. And that rings true to many of your other projects. I know you’ve got new projects coming up. You’ve got a passion project of yours, which is a private school. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
- 5
33:51
Yeah.
- Jennifer Lee
33:51
It’s totally different. Obviously, it’s going to be quality, but it’s a little bit different than building a home.
- Troy
33:55
Yeah. And it’s funny, that kind of project is more what I grew up in construction-wise, in terms of the type of construction being institutional construction. So, it was a big give back on my part. I believe in philanthropy. I believe in giving back to the community. This was, admittedly, it was motivated because I wanted a place for my kids, my two daughters to go to high they went to elementary school in the Surrey White Rock area at Star of the Sea, which is absolutely a fantastic school. And the question was right away, where are they going to go to high school? You start thinking, as a parent, you guys know, you start thinking in advance, it’s like, okay, what is this future going to look like? And there wasn’t a high school in the area that we felt conducive, you know, for them to go to. So that was the initial motivation. And especially for my youngest daughter, she has Down syndrome and I really wanted to try and build something for her to be able to stick together with the grade level that she was in so she wouldn’t be transitioning into something totally new in high school. So that was a lot of the motivation at the time. And that goes back over well over 10 years ago that that little brainchild started. And I’m proud to say that our new high school, St. John Paul II Academy, which has been open for classes for the last seven years, or going into year seven, yeah. But the new campus is going to be open. And when it’s completely built in 2025, it’s going to be open. So, this time next year, exactly a year from now.
- Mike
35:42
If you’re going to buy it, it’s pretty spectacular.
- Troy
35:44
Yeah. And it’ll eventually, it’ll be open for 540 students. And when we complete the inside, it’ll be for 900 students. And yeah, we’re pretty proud of that project. That’s not a moneymaker. That was a big donation on our part in terms of time, effort, well, and money. And yeah, so that’s the school that we imagine will be there for the next 100 years. And there’s a massive need for schools in Surrey right now. To put
- Troy
36:14
that in perspective, not to ramble on about that, but to put it in perspective, there’s roughly 50,000 kids in K-12 in the city of Vancouver and it’s been shrinking over the last few years. And in the city of Surrey, there is roughly 82,000 kids in K to 12 and it’s growing every year.
- Mike
36:40
Yeah, and they’re stacked elbow to elbow. Everybody’s crowded.
- Troy
36:43
And they’re doing start times staggered in some schools. Start and finish times, yeah, to be able to… The new school, Grandview Heights, which is just down the road from our new campus on 24th Avenue. It’s full, right? Yeah, I think the day it opened, it was built for 1600 students. It was full the day it opened, 8 to 12, it was full. And now it’s over 1700. I think they have 11 portables in the parking lot and they’re staggered start finish times. And
- Troy
37:11
they have now said that even if you’re in the catchment area, you cannot come to the school because we are.
- Mike
37:17
That’s happening with us as well. And it’s great that you’re doing that because you’ve taken by doing that, not only have you created something particularly unique, but you’ve taken a lot of pressure off the other schools. And what I will say is this, all of us in business hope to make a mark on this world. Yeah, very few of us get to leave a tangible legacy like that. And from the bottom of our hearts,
- Mike
37:40
as parents and just people, thank you very much for doing that. We need more people who take that leadership position and consider their place in the community and not just what can it do for me. And I just, I really appreciate that.
- Troy
37:52
I appreciate you saying that, Mike. Thank you.
- Jennifer Lee
37:54
Yeah, it’s a big undertaking and to do it as a give back project, it’s a long timeline, it’s a lot of hours and things. And I think that’s amazing that you’re doing it because you’re also helping build communities in South Surrey, which as much as it is a beautiful place to live, and I can see the draw for a lot of families but there’s not enough education out there.
- Jennifer Lee
38:13
and we really need to have that so we can continue to build all these amazing communities in South Surrey.
- Troy
38:19
So, thank you. Yeah, you’re most welcome and happy to give back and I encourage other people to do the same you know. I didn’t do it on my own. There’s many, many people that jumped on board to say, hey, yeah, let’s do this. And so, it’s taken a long time. There’s a lot of funds to be raised still to pay for this big project. It’s a $80 million project, excluding the land costs, which is another 30 million on top of that. And that’s something that the private sector can do. Never count out the private sector. There’s a parent-led initiative that got that school built and it’s with the help of the Catholic Archdiocese. Not the help, I mean they’ve basically backed the whole thing, which is huge. That’s some great foresight on the part of the archdiocese that’s helped that through.
- Mike
39:14
I’m going to add one bit of insight as well. I grew up in Ontario, there’s a separate Catholic school board and public-school board. That is not the case here. So, there is not public funding to draw on for that. That is an entirely an initiative of you guys, which is amazing. What is not amazing is we are coming to the end of our time together.
- Mike
39:29
In fact, it’s rather sad. And I’m sorry to say that we don’t have more time. But, you know, this being only your first time, that doesn’t mean we won’t have a second through fourth time.
- 10
39:39
as you keep winning all these awards.
- Troy
39:40
Yeah, for sure.
- Mike
39:41
Listen, we are very grateful for a lot of different reasons. It’s always awesome to have someone who’s won all those awards and has that leadership prerogative, but really my take from all this is just working with a great team with a process-driven planning and experience. These are things that are really important.
- Mike
39:59
The other thing I love that you said was that mistakes will happen. It takes a lot to say that mistakes will happen because we try to say in our we’re all perfect we know everything but the fact of the matter is really nobody knows everything and it’s what we do with things that happen not so much the things that happen and finally you’re taking what luxury means and how it can scale down or scale up and it’s really something that’s very fluid in terms of what things mean to like for me like a high-end home theater is more luxurious than a high-end kitchen. But I can’t afford the alimony payments to do one or the other, so we’re going to do with the kitchen, right? So that’s just the way it is, and I love your take on that as well. So, thank you so much for sharing that. It’s been a really inspiring conversation.
- Jennifer Lee
40:39
But see, maybe Trane needs to sit down with you and your wife, and he can explain. He’s like, you know, we can do things for this price, depending on what you want. He can be your mediator. He explained it so well earlier.
- Mike
40:51
No, no, if I have a choice between a theater and a kitchen, I can’t afford the alimony payments.
- Troy
40:56
We’re going with the kitchen.
- 9
40:57
We’re going with the kitchen.
- Jennifer Lee
40:58
There you go. There you go. A happy wife, happy life is what they say. Troy, you gave us so many nuggets of wisdom, but can you give us one more tip for people that are wanting to build just a home in general, whatever it means to them that’s luxury, because I think everybody considers their space a luxury home.
- Troy
41:16
Yeah, you know what? This is my big, and this has been our philosophy for a long time, and we’ve kind of turned, we’ve flipped this upside down a little bit, but if budget matters, which it always does, you should hire your builder first. Before your architect, before your interior design, if budget matters, hire a builder that knows what they’re doing first. We always come up with a budget even if it’s just plugging in a bunch of numbers on a sheet based on our historicals, we come up with that budget first. And then we can work with the architect, we can work with the interior design to help keep the project on budget out of the gate during the design phase. it’s a sad day when potential clients come to us and they’ve got all of their, it’s great, they’ve got permits because we don’t have to do that, you know, we don’t have to do that waiting game with the city, but they’ve got all the interior design work done and all the architecture work done and then they say, how much is this going to cost and it is nowhere near what they budgeted for. So, I always encourage that. Hire your builder first. Start interviewing right away because that’s where you’re going to get the real numbers is from your builder.
- Mike
42:33
What a great segue for the final part of our conversation. Speaking of luxury and budget, hey, if you’re listening or watching this and you’d like a little bit more budget for your home and a little bit of luxury while you’re doing it, you should probably enter our contest to win a barbecue.
- Mike
42:49
And as I say, every single episode, like and share this episode. a BBQ. And as I say every single episode, like and share this episode, tell your family, tell your friends, even people on the street you meet, doesn’t really matter. But you are going to want to come here because you have a chance to win a Napoleon Prestige P500 Stainless Steel Natural Gas BBQ valued at $1600, compliments of our amazing podcast partners at FortisBC.
JL
I know Mike is in love with barbecuing. Do you like barbecuing? Is it a self-serving thing?
Troy
Almost every day. Oh, almost every day.
- JL
43:24
Perfect. You guys are close to each other. You should go to each other’s houses for…
- Troy
43:29
I have two.
- Mike
43:30
Yeah.
- 6
43:31
Only two?
- Jennifer Lee
43:32
Mikes got 12 smokers, P.S.
- Troy
43:34
12 smokers?
- Jennifer Lee
43:35
Like for real?
- Mike
43:36
I kind of have a problem.
- Troy
43:38
You might have a problem.
- 4
43:39
Yeah. Actually, I don’t have any problems.
- Mike
43:41
Everyone else who thinks I have a problem.
- Troy
43:42
I’m perfectly happy.
- Jennifer Lee
43:44
We’ll ask your wife that question.
- Mike
43:46
No, we’re not going to ask her any of those questions about barbeques. It’s a sensitive subject.
- Jennifer Lee
43:50
We’ll create a time to barbecue of Troy and Mike. But in the meantime, for notes and links to everything mentioned on today’s episode, including resources shared by Troy, go to www.havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce. Thank you to Trail Appliances, FortisBC, BC Housing, Rami Films, Jpod Creations, and AI Technology and Design. It takes a team to build a home and so does it to build this podcast. So, thank you so much for joining us and we’ll see you next week.
- Troy
44:14
All right. Tavan.ca is another good place to visit.
- Jennifer Lee
44:17
Oh, I love it. Put it in there. You can also go to tavan.ca for more information. Awesome. Thank you, Troy.
- Troy
44:25
Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. My pleasure.
- 5
44:28
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.