Episode 86: 1908 to Net Zero – Deconstruction

Deconstruction vs demolition. Todd Best of Best Builders and Eric Serpas Ventura of VEMA Deconstruction show how careful dismantling, reclaimed lumber, and smart planning support net-zero goals, reduce waste, and keep character homes alive. Tune in now!

Listen to “Ep 86: 1908 to Net Zero – Deconstruction” on Spreaker.

You will also find “Measure Twice, Cut Once” on iTunes, Spotify, Spreaker, and on HAVAN’s YouTube channel.

TODD BEST, OWNER | PRESIDENT, BEST BUILDERS

Construction has always been instrumental in Todd’s life. Starting at a young age, each summer was spent on-site working for this father, Garry Best, who did commercial builds. Todd’s passion for building was evident early in life and he never doubted that one day he was going to own his own company. In 1994, Todd acquired his Red Seal in carpentry, and by the age of 27 had started Garry Best Design and Construction, which would later be shortened to Best Builders Ltd. In his spare time, Todd enjoys trips to Disneyland with his family and doing work on his hobby farm in Delta.

ERIC SERPAS VENTURA | CEO, VEMA Deconstruction
Eric founded VEMA Deconstruction in 2022, after serving as an aircraft mainte

nance engineer in the Royal Canadian Air Force for ten years. His mission is to provide a sustainable solution for the removal of buildings by using deconstruction as the principal salvaging technique to recover usable materials for reuse and upcycling.

With his builder license and skills in deconstruction and timber structures, Eric leads a team of experts who can handle any project, from residential to multi-family, with efficiency and quality. He also partners with local charities, businesses, and organizations to donate materials, appliances, cabinets, furniture, and much more that would otherwise end up in landfills. His services benefit the community by preserving resources, promoting environmental responsibility, supporting local economies, and supporting the Circular Economy.

Listen and like for your chance to win a gas BBQ compliments of our Podcast Partner FortisBC.

Ep_86 Transcript

0:00:03

Mike

Hi everybody, and welcome back to Measure Twice, Cut Once. My name is Mike, and when we first started this over 10 seasons ago, I knew virtually nothing. And I know a little bit more now, but luckily I’m surrounded by a bunch of experts who help guide us through the process.

0:00:17

Jennifer-Lee

10 seasons?

That feels like a long time.

0:00:19

Mike

It’s because we’re measuring them in dog years.

0:00:21

Jennifer-Lee

Oh, there we go. And I’m Jennifer Lee, making sure that Mike does not pick up a hammer, even though he feels he has 10 seasons of experience. Today, we’re welcoming back to Todd Best of Best Builders with Eric Serpas Ventura from Vema Deconstruction.

0:00:47

Mike

It’s okay. Deconstruction is a very new concept. And by the end of this episode, everyone’s going to know A: what deconstruction is and B: how cool it is. And indeed that is what we’re here to do today. Um, we’re going to talk about the deconstruction process and a very amazing project. We’ve talked about in the past, the 1908 heritage project, which is taking a heritage home, taking it down to basically studs, rebuilding it as a net zero energy efficient home.

0:01:13

Jennifer-Lee

So we’re going to talk about. how carefully taking this apart can not only reduce waste, but it can save materials and lower embodied carbon. A fascinating part of building smarter.

0:01:24

Mike

So let’s get started. Of course, we have our good friend Todd Best back. Todd’s been on a number of episodes. I mean, if this was Saturday Night Live, his name would be Alec Baldwin.

0:01:32

Jennifer-Lee

He’s been on our episodes so many times. You need a five -timers jacket.

0:01:35

Mike

Absolutely. And we love having him on because he has so much information that he loves to share. But what’s really exciting for us is we have a first -time guest, of course, Eric from Vema Deconstruction.

0:01:46

(Speaker 2)

Eric, for anyone who has not had the pleasure of knowing you and knowing about you, tell us a little about yourself and how you became Vema Deconstruction.

0:01:58

Eric

Yeah, no, for sure. And thank you Jen and Mike for having me here. Very excited to be here.

So I did 10 years in the Royal Canadian Air Force.

0:02:04

Jennifer-Lee

Thank you for your service. Thank you.

0:02:21

Eric

And then once I did the 10 years, I wanted to get into construction. So I was thinking about building homes. And as we were getting ready, and one of the things I was excited about was Passive House. building.

So I really got into starting that idea of building homes that way. So before I started, I went to started looking at the sustainability conferences and started learning more and more about kind of all these ideas in the green technology sector. And one idea popped up, which I saw, which was deconstruction. And it was basically taking homes down piece by piece and repurposing them and reusing them. And I said, wow, that is incredible. And funny story, before that I was bringing ideas to my wife saying, hey, what do you think about this idea?

What do you think about this idea? And this was the first one where she didn’t slam the door on me and told me to, you know, to let’s try something else. So she was very excited. And that’s when we both got into the idea of starting Vima Deconstruction. And one other thing about Vima is my wife, Vanny, myself, Eric, my son, Marcus, and my daughter, Alyssa, because I truly believe that this is more than just this generation.

0:03:21

Jennifer-Lee

It’s a multigenerational business that we’re growing here. I love it.

What happens if you have more children?

0:03:26

Mike

I was going to say the same thing.

Like, what do we change the name to?

0:03:28

Eric

Well, actually, if they’re not interested in the in being part of the business, then I’m just going to find someone else with those letters.

0:03:34

Mike

Hiring criteria. Yeah. So talk about this little journey towards deconstruction. Was it a I mean, we’ve got to get in the project, obviously, but this is such an amazing thing. So help me understand deconstruction. My house built in 1981.

0:03:49

Mike

We’ve talked about this for ten, ten seasons now. I want to rebuild it. What does deconstruction look like for me? We take a bulldozer. bulldoze it, and then we pick through it. Like how, how do we, how do we quantify that in a real world scenario?

0:04:01

Eric

Because some deconstructions don’t use a bulldozer.

0:04:04

Mike

What are the tools you use?

0:04:06

Eric

We don’t use the bulldozer.

No, that wouldn’t help us. No. So so the easiest way to explain what we can do as a company is we come in, we take an inventory of all the material that’s in your home, all the quality things like windows, floors, appliances, all that stuff is how we start an inventory for you. And that’s what’s going to be donated to Habitat for Humanity or other charities. Once we do that, we then also provide asbestos removal. And we, as well, after we’re done the deconstruction, which is the removal of every single piece of lumber, that is the second part of the inventory.

0:04:43

Todd

So all that lumber contributes to the inventory. And all of that lumber, which is, you know, especially in your home 1980s, that’s still old growth Douglas fir. So fantastic value in that material. So once we combine the material that is there inside your home with the lumber, that gives you a total inventory value. Our appraiser then gives a value to that, which creates a tax credit for you.

0:05:10

Todd

Once we complete our job, we donate all the material and then you get a tax receipt. that turns into a tax credit, then that is discounted off your total. Which normally does account for a big part of the demolition costs, which is what attracted me. As you may say, you get a tax credit for $30 ,000 and it may have cost you $50 ,000 to actually pull the house down.

0:05:34

Mike

So it is actually a way of being able to help the economy.

0:05:37

Jennifer-Lee

And plus with this available tax credit, it does offset some of the additional costs.

0:05:42

Mike

Yes. And besides giving it all away after you take it down, do you reuse any of the materials for that particular house?

0:06:01

Todd

Oh, yeah, 100 percent. I mean, we’re just scratching the surface. All of that lumber can be turned into whatever you can imagine. Flooring, soffits, backslash walls, a million things in design. We can bring all that material, which is Douglas fir is much stronger, much better than SPF material and higher quality.

0:06:08

Todd

I mean, it’s coming from 2000 year old old growth forest versus 15 year old SPF a mixture of three trees. So we have much better quality and that as well can help support backframing. Well, we’re looking at so much different stuff now. I mean, you even look at the shiplap, which in the day was cheating and they used to put it on a diagonal and that would give you your strength and your walls, but it was also very easy to get, very easy to mill, and it was cheap to supply. Well, now you can take that same shiplap and you’ll find now that people are making feature walls and using it as more of a finishing material now. So now you’re taking all this beautiful old wood, and like Eric said, we are really just starting to see different ways in which we can create either structural components of the home, architectural components, the soluble components, like all these beautiful fur beams, homes of that era were designed one way which have beams would run back to front on a home and then the joist would sit on top and that would be your bearing points usually at three or four locations those beams are eight by twelve eight by and they’re clear for And so now you can take those out and either use them as, you know, patio construction, other structural components of the home.

0:07:30

Todd

So I think we’re really just scratching the surface of just what we can utilize. And it’s what really attracted me to Eric was he, I think he shared my love for, and it’s not just a sustainability, but it’s also it’s, you know, the landfills, let’s face it, they’re getting bigger and bigger. We’re throwing away all this beautiful material. Now we don’t have to, you know, clear cut forest.

0:07:52

Jennifer-Lee

There’s just so many ways you’re paying back into the economy. And plus you can have a little bit of fun with it.

0:07:58

Mike

So. Yeah, I like it because there’s been a lot of articles recently and a lot of media coverage on the news about not homes, but about thrift stores and how thrift stores have rised in popularity. It’s the same thing, but we’re doing it now for the house because the house has some valuable things in it that you would never think about.

0:08:17

Mike

Well, let’s change the conversation since we’re talking about things rising. Let’s talk about this project because from from an old home rises a new home. And I think now that we understand a little bit more about deconstruction, Todd, can you just do a quick recap about the 1908 to net zero project and tell us a little about that and how it relates to working with Eric? Yeah, so as a quick recap, obviously, This is a home that’s very, very close to my heart. The owner was, you know, very excited. And I think that’s what generated the original excitement about being able to take a home in Mount Pleasant, a 1908 heritage home.

0:08:57

Todd

It is the oldest home in Canada that has been done this. So it is part of a study with Net Zero Canada and Retrofit Canada. And we’ve been we’ve had the privilege of speaking there at the Net Zero conference on this project. But this job has developed over time, and Eric was a big part of that for me right out of the gate. Because again, Eric and I really had just met and only worked on a few projects together. Eric, I can now say, works on all my projects.

0:09:28

Todd

But I brought him out originally to say, this is my dream of how I’d like to do this. I want to lift the home. We’re going to do an all new carbon -free concrete foundation. How do I utilize the materials? I want to keep it clean. front facade.

0:09:41

Tod

And then Eric and I started rolling. And the more ideas we started rolling with, then we were bouncing them off all the other professionals to find out just what we can do. And the more Eric and I talk, the actual more opportunities arise for how we can use the material. And this is where I want to be able to show builders, and this is where I have been a very strong advocate for Eric’s business, because as he’s trying to explain this to builders and builders that don’t understand, I’ve told Eric, direct them back to myself because I can tell them from a builder’s perspective, this isn’t costly. And if you are a little bit creative and are willing to work with someone like Eric, there’s all kinds of things that are going to become more available. For me, like I said, finishing, siding, feature walls, cladding.

0:10:26

Todd

You know, Eric and I are now talking about, you know, building structural panels out of recycled material.

0:10:34

Todd

And I don’t mind using that as a bit of a…

0:10:36

Todd

Eric’s actually building a home with recycled panels in his own home.

0:10:40

Todd

So he’s kind of taking that on himself and facing the learning curve so that people can see how it’s all done.

0:10:46

Eric

Yeah. No, thanks, Todd. There’s a lot there. There’s a lot we did. And as soon as he called me and before he finished the sentence, I said, I’m in. I’m excited to me, pushing forward all material that we can, you know, we can deconstruct and repurpose it and upcycle it is is our main goal.

0:11:03

Eric

And Todd’s very great for that. Very easy, very supportive. So we are very happy to be working with his company, Best Builders. And, you know, we’re excited because we said a couple about about a year ago, we started talking about, well, there’s so much material coming out of here. There’s a big demand for housing in Canada. What can we do?

0:11:21

Eric

So we kind of just merge them together. and we said can we build prefab panels using reclaimed material.

0:11:29

Eric

So we did and we now next week actually is the prefab panel. putting it up actually.

0:11:38

Todd

Erection date. Yeah. Don’t take that wrong. So, so we’re going to, we’re going to put it up.

0:11:44

Todd

And, um, this is the first house in Canada, uh, that is 80 % reclaimed lumber, uh, putting back in, uh, we’re looking at putting back in close to 50 ,000 pounds of lumber reclaimed back into our home.

0:11:56

Todd

So we’re very excited. We want to have an, as an example for everyone to come, take a look and see, um, that you can use reclaimed and, uh, And it’s just going to be a show home for everyone to come and take a look. So pretty exciting. Very excited.

0:12:08

Eric

And and that’s how it’s expanding. I mean, me and Todd are just starting the conversation.

0:12:12

Jennifer-Lee

This can be something that can grow very quickly and we can keep using Reclaimed and Structural. More and more opportunities. Yeah. Great. Congratulations. I’m excited to see the social media journey of it all.

0:12:24

Jennifer-Lee

But before you get to that part, of course, you’ve done the assessment.

Before you get to, you know, reusing it, let’s talk about the fun part. How do you deconstruct it? Because obviously you’re not using a bulldozer, you’re not using a wrecking ball. If you’re going to take a lot of the stuff and reuse it, you’re probably not smashing and grabbing.

0:12:55

Todd

No, yeah, you’re right. No, no, we, you know, there’s a misconception always that deconstruction is more expensive and it takes too long.

And I can answer those questions pretty quickly now, so we can kind of move forward. And honestly, it’s more people working, which is better for the economy overall, because we’re creating more jobs.

0:13:08

Eric

At the site where we’re taking down every piece hand by hand, we use Milwaukee sawzalls to cut We then take down every piece of shiplap, every piece of rafter, joist, lumber, flooring, whatever you can imagine.

We just take it down piece by piece.

It doesn’t take long.

0:13:27

Todd

It’s about a week once the home is in framing. It’s like building your home in reverse, really.

0:13:31

Eric

Yeah. So Todd builds it, I take it down. Yeah. I was like, it’s like, it’s kind of like a reverse mining because you’re mining for gold.

0:13:37

Mike

You’re mining for gold for the house. My biggest concern, this is what I’ve learned in 10 Seasons is that there’s two elements that are really the levers that create challenges in our industry. One is the cost of building and two is the time to build. And what you’re saying is like, they tore a bunch of houses down on my street last summer. There was two days with an excavator there and you know so but the time is set yeah it was noisy and it was so it was three full days and what we’re talking it was a two more days and a considerable cost savings and being able to look ourselves in the mirror 25 years from now and going we were part of the solution not part of the problem.

0:14:26

Todd

But look at this as for me it’s also as a training exercise now most I think most young men and young women that want to get into the trades, wouldn’t it be great if the sustainability was now part of the training program?

Because what better way to show a young carpenter how to build a home than actually showing him how it comes apart, because there, you can’t just go in and go, I’m going to take this wall out and we’ll take that wall out and then the house will just come apart. It’s not, you take the wrong wall out and the house is coming down on top of you. So there is a whole, so there’s a philosophy as to building your home from foundation up, how to build it right. But even when you deconstruct a home, you have to do it in the correct order. So being able to even teach apprentices, like having and saying like, this is why this comes off first. This is why this comes off.

Cause you want to be able to do it in a safe manner. Eric has, and Eric’s guys worked with my own carpenters. So they were very attuned to each other. And even when they took it apart, there were discussions as to how does it come apart in a safe way? So there’s really good training opportunities here as well.

0:14:59

Mike

Eric, I got one last question.

I know Jennifer’s got some questions too, but this is an important one. Obviously, there’s more people required. take a house apart. Is some of those labor costs, are they recaptured in savings to material or offset credits? How does that break down for somebody who’s looking at the math of all of this? I was thinking about this and how to kind of let people know what deconstruction is, especially with costs and stuff.

0:15:47

Eric

And there’s two ways of really looking at this. One is what worked really great for 1908 and working with Todd and the owners was we need to be back. We can’t be at the end of the conversation when it’s like, hey, I need this home demoed two weeks from now or tomorrow. Can you start? That doesn’t work for us. You know, we it’s just a line item in the budget. And that’s the first thing you do, but the last thing you budget for. Right. So then you’re like trying to find cheap, cheap, cheap. So it doesn’t work. So what worked really great for 1908 was we were brought right at the beginning during the initial design stage.

And this is one of the most powerful things I think that we can use because it allows us to come in and say, hey, guys, here’s all the material that will be coming out of this house.

Here’s for the designer. Here’s for the construction material. Here’s how you save money by using this material that’s coming from your own home.

Here’s what you’re going to be able to donate. All those things happen at the beginning, at the initial design stage. It’s a part of the plan. 100%. And not like an afterthought.

0:16:46

Todd

Yeah, but you have to change people’s thinking as to the sustainability portion of it. And everyone always loves, oh, the whole green angle and all this stuff. But really, if you bring Eric in at the start, which we talked about this doing the design charrette, I mean, that’s when Eric comes in, because he says, this is the value. This is my timeline. This is how it suits your schedule.

And I find that most owners go, oh, I didn’t think about that. And I said, well, that should be part of the planning, because there are cost savings. And if you do it in the correct order, like Eric for myself, we did most of the demolition prior to even getting the building permit. Well, because we planned it properly, we were able to go to the city, get a demolition permit, take it all apart, got the permit, start construction. But there has to be a plan.

0:17:30

Eric

Yeah, that’s that’s great, Todd. And I think that something else that we can add to that is that, you know, we did deconstruction for our own home. And because we did that, we were able to understand and follow through the whole steps and see how does that work. So when we looked at it, we said, OK, well, deconstruction is going to cost a little bit more, but we can reduce other things to include that. And I would rather sleep home at night happy knowing that I didn’t.

0:17:51

Jennifer-Lee

You know, one of the things I always say is that, you know, building your home is the biggest expense of your life, but it’s also the biggest amount of garbage that you leave in your life.

0:18:01

Jennifer-Lee

So we can stop that and by changing simple things. Maybe I don’t want to have a countertop that’s $50 ,000 from Italy. Maybe I can have one that’s local for $10 ,000. There’s ways of thinking and it’s a responsibility of the developers and builders to give that option and that view to the owners. Or sometimes too, and you probably find this in what you do, is that there are some homes with some really amazing stone counters and things like that, that you could take that stone and use it in bathrooms or other places in your new house. 100%.

0:18:36

Jennifer-Lee

Yeah, it’s interesting to me because I just feel like this is something that I feel like we should have already known. It seems so simple, the concept. We already kind of do it.

0:18:50

Jennifer-Lee

Like, you know, when we are making a meal in our kitchen, we’re using all different ingredients and we’re saving the ingredients that we don’t use that we’re cleaning up the kitchen carefully. When we’re moving, we’re doing the same thing.

0:19:02

Jennifer-Lee

We’re taking things off the walls nicely because we don’t want to make the new owners upset. We already do this type of stuff in our lives. When we take down a party, you know, we’re taking down garbage bag. Yeah.

0:19:15

Todd

why? And we sometimes we’re using stuff. So why aren’t we doing this in all aspects of our lives? I think this is where uh eric and i and this is i think why i do love my and i always over exaggerate but i do love my builders association i mean you know um wendy and dawn both have given me dawn our producer Dawn your producer um and also my my very good friend you know has given me an opportunity to I think be myself a little bit more because I mean, this is great that I’m passionate about this and that I’ve attracted people that are like minded, but being able to get on a podcast like this and be able to tell people, you know what, there is stuff available. I’m available.

0:19:58

Todd

Like I love mentoring young builders and I mentored quite a few builders in our association, but that’s really what this association about is being able to access other like -minded people and show them how to build a team of their own. I’m so grateful to be able to come on the podcast and speak to you about some of my exciting projects.

Mike

Well, you know what? You couldn’t have timed this any better because we want to talk more about all of that. But in order for us to have this podcast, we have to thank our amazing sponsors. So we’re going to break for two minutes, thank our sponsors, and we’re going to be back.

0:20:36

Jennifer-Lee

We’re going to start to break down some of what we talked about and put it into practice. Measure Twice, Cut Once is grateful to our podcast partners, FortisBC, BC Housing and Trail Appliances. Support from our partners helps us share expert knowledge and resources with families looking to build, design and renovate the home right for you. For BC Housing, creating access to housing solutions that meets everybody’s needs is a guiding principle. BC Housing is working with governments, nonprofits, First Nations and residential construction industry members to create practical solutions to BC housing challenges. To learn more about BC Housing initiatives, programs and services, go to www.BCHousing.org .

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0:22:20

Mike

All right, we are back. And prior to our break, we talked a little about deconstruction and a lot of the why and the what. Now let’s put it into practice.

So as a bigger part of this 1908 project, So we obviously know deconstruction is part of it. Todd, can you talk about the net zero strategies of this project, including the deconstruction, and how all these methodologies and new ways of thinking go together to help achieve this aggressive goal?

0:23:05

Todd

Yeah, I mean, so, you know, the net zero was our our original target. To be honest, the salvage part was just something I, you know, adopted some time ago and I was anxious to bring Eric in because the the owner was giving us the opportunity to use this as a learning platform. So a lot of points, I think I was trying to get across on building practices. I was then able to, like I said, pull a team together.

We were able to discuss this. So this has been a really big learning process for myself as well, because a lot of people that are building net zero homes look at, I’m going to build a net zero energy plus home. And in order to do that, I have to knock that home down. and I said there’s got to be a way that I can still do a beautiful renovation because building a new home is expensive and it is daunting to a lot of people because they’re looking at you know a net zero home means I gotta you know I’m gonna spend all this money on a lot and then I gotta knock that old house down and I’m gonna build a brand new two million dollar home and am I gonna get everything I like and so most of this left renovations kind of out of the equation. So in speaking with Net Zero Canada, when we told them what we wanted to do, one, it had never been done before. So I had a kind of a unique opportunity.

But two, they were willing to give me the resources I needed to help me accomplish it. So after talking with with like Janet at Build Green and and talking with again with HAVAN and CHBA and everyone got on board, the city of Vancouver got excited. I had some pretty good ideas. So then it was, how do I utilize salvage material? Because I knew it was already good for the carbon score. But how do I then turn that into being able to build a net zero home?

And again, I challenged my team and said, how do I do this? This is the tools we’ve got. This is the goal we’re trying to accomplish. How do we marry those together? And, uh, you know, talking with Peter, uh, Smith craft architecture, again, the designer, uh, Barb, uh, Eric himself, cause Eric was saying, this is what we’ve got on the, on the table. Here’s our list of materials.

Now, how do you turn that into something that we can physically use? So carbon points, build green, net zero. And I wanted to give, uh, the listener, uh, clients, possible clients or new people thinking about that. you know what, you can take a heritage home and still get everything you need.

0:25:02

Jennifer-Lee

And it doesn’t have to be something that scares you.

Todd

Well, a little bit of planning goes into place here, but, you know, and helping you choose the right builder and all of this, but it doesn’t have to be scary.

0:25:13

Todd

So it’s nice to be able to say an area like Mount Pleasant is all heritage homes.

Now, why do I have to destroy that beautiful neighborhood just so I could build a bunch of modern homes? I should be able to keep that neighborhood fully intact, but turn those old homes into a net zero energy star home very easily. And I think that’s our goal.

0:25:35

Todd

That’s what we’re going to accomplish it. And then we’re going to show people how to repeat it.

0:25:40

Jennifer-Lee

Well, there’s just so much beauty in Vancouver, specifically when it comes to different buildings.

0:25:45

Jennifer-Lee

And it’s sad when all of them are starting to look exactly the same. I couldn’t agree more. And they lose their character. But Eric, you kind of mentioned this a little bit, that some people shy away from deconstruction because it could be a little bit more costly than your other typical solutions to get rid of a house. But would you say that you know, if you’re doing a lot of reclaiming and reusing that in the end, it actually saves you a little bit more money.

0:26:12

(Speaker 2)

Yeah. Well, I mean, there’s there’s there’s a list of and I think that it’s it’s it’s a good idea. I think we’re going to start posting a lot of this stuff on our website, www.VemaDeconstruction.com  , just answering a lot of these questions. Yeah, it was like a plug. I only have to mention it three more times. So we have, you know, just being able there’s a lot of education. We’re going through education stage right now.

You know, I did We were teaching at BCIT Deconstruction Management for a bit.

It was a great opportunity as part of the micro -credential in sustainability we were doing. There was some funding that was available, so we had amazing people coming in here, architects, builders, engineers, all excited about this work. And then afterwards, you know, the money ran out. So it’s part of the thing where we have to continue fighting to educate. And part of that education is that, you know, apart from donating all the material, feeling great about that.

0:27:05

then you’re also having the material that you can purchase back from Habitat at a really good price.

0:27:11

Todd

And you can actually start creating whatever you want. You also have the option of keeping whatever material you want. So a lot of, you know… I do that. I handpick through the stuff for my nice stuff. But you know, I wanted to make sure we touched on the point that when you talk about savings, so, you know, one of these, again, the big leap of faith Eric has made here is he’s going to construct his home out of recycled panels.

0:27:33

Todd

Now, To put into context, if you’re building a home, we normally use about 20 to 25 dollars a square foot, depending on the structural intent of the home to build it. So, you know, you’re looking at a 3000 square foot home, you’re looking at about 80 ,000 bucks for the lumber. Yeah, wood is expensive.

0:27:51

Jennifer-Lee

Just the wood.

0:27:58

Todd

So now let’s imagine now that you can deconstruct your home at a cost for thirty five thousand. Then you can take that home and literally plug that lumber right back into your new home.

0:28:03

Todd

So now there’s an immediate saving. So not only do you get your tax write -off, but let’s say half of that cost of 75, so let’s say another 30, now goes into recycled reclaimed panels, or as we’re using at 1908, we’re actually using the material for all my non -load bearing, backing, that’s gonna save me 18 to $20 ,000 in salvage material that I can now put back into the home. And that’s good structural material. And we’re also trying to work with some engineers of how you can regrade this salvage material so you could use it for more structural material.

So there’s lots of new stuff coming up, but savings, tax breaks, materials, easy one.

0:28:44

Mike

You just plug that number in and now you’ve just saved the entire cost of what it would cost you to deconstruct your home.

0:28:50

Mike

And that’s the thing is when you look at prices right away, and we’ve talked about this on the show all the time is like, you’re like, oh, well, that’s a lot.

0:28:56

Jennifer-Lee

But then you don’t realize that it gives back to you.

0:28:58

Todd

Yes.

0:28:59

Eric

Because you’re doing the right things. Because when you get rid of a home and you demolish it, You don’t save anything. So, yes, maybe that is cheaper. But in the long run, you’ve got to rebuy everything or like you were saying, what is expensive nowadays? So if we can save wood, wood, concrete, it’s the idea. It sounds like it’s just a matter of planning differently.

0:29:17

Mike

Yes. Eric, I had a question. Are there any instances that you can think of where deconstruction doesn’t make sense? So basically any home that is 1990 and newer, we’ve tackled 1990 all the way up to 1899. Those are the homes we’ve been able to deconstruct. You know, kind of the triage approach should be to keep the home where it is and do a retrofit.

0:29:43

Eric

That’s the first best option. Option two is moving the home. That’s a great opportunity, great companies like Nickel Brothers and Renewal Development, real good companies that can move the home to other locations. And then deconstruction.

So demo should never be an option unless a home is caught on fire or has been abandoned.

0:30:03

Mike

And, you know, those are kind of really the only two options.

0:30:06

Eric

But yeah, deconstruction is is great for everything. So we’re a really good triage team there. And it’s time to take the demo out of it, because apart from, you know, demoing and demoing, demoing land assemblies, which are the kind of the biggest culprits here in the Lower Mainland, anywhere between five to 10 homes being demoed in a couple of weeks. All that extra cost is coming, right? We’re going to be dumping all of our lumber in the landfill, fill it up, and then what’s going to happen? Where are we going to go and dump that stuff?

0:30:38

Eric

Those costs are coming and better to prevent it.

0:30:40

Eric

It costs thousands of dollars to dump it, and we already have to go through the process of separating it.

0:30:45

Todd

But you know, Eric and I have been talking about these and we’ve been speaking with the city, the sustainability department, like I said, came and talked to us, talked to Eric and I and Barb at 1908.

0:30:54

Todd

One of the biggest things we’re saying is that you take down five of these homes on a land assembly and the material that comes out of that could easily build two brand new homes.

0:31:03

Todd

So I think this is the thing where you’re saying, of course, there is some material that you’re not going to be able to reuse. You know, just because it’s not really able to be using it from a structural sense. But part of the, you know, the things that Eric and I are looking into, and Eric is, again, a big advocate for this, is, you know, can I take this reclaimed material and then with very little new lumber to add in, can we then build a new home that other people then look at it and go, you know, that’s a really attractive home. And you built it with what?

0:31:33

Jennifer-Lee

You built that all with salvaged material, that’s amazing. And one of the cool things about it is the story behind it, right? We haven’t spoken about the story. Your home tells a story now. Your home has a history. Yeah.

0:31:42

(Speaker 2)

And you know, what’s great is that we’ve actually had, you know, the material that was taken away from 1908, a lot of that material is going back into design. But other material that’s available now in the, let’s say, you know, upcycling material pool, we can pick from that pool and then start using it for building. So we actually have a you know, an architect that deconstructed his home, that material was given basically kind of to 1908 and they’re using that material again. So that story continues, which is really great. I like it. You’re rewriting history with all the new homes.

0:32:15

Mike

I guess another pain point people could kind of see this as, besides obviously, you know, a misconception was about the cost is the time. You said it takes about a week. I really wouldn’t think that’s much different than really demolishing a home. There’s really not that much difference in time, is it?

0:32:33

Eric

No. So, I mean, everything happens the same way. During the time that we go and reclaim, nothing’s happening anyways.

So we’re recovering all the time. and donating it.

0:32:40

Eric

You know, typically when that home is shut down, people could break in and, you know, do things.

So we’re there early, we’re recovering good material.

0:32:49

Todd

Then after that, the abatement continues the same way. And then after that, you basically are left with a home with shingles, framing, metal, and our team can pretty much do it from Monday to Saturday, clean up, we’re out of there. So it’s not really any different than a demolition excavator coming in and crushing the home in three, four days, having a big 80 yarder come and take it away. Nothing happens. It’s just even an excavator stays on site for a couple of extra days. It takes a little more time.

0:33:20

Todd

Really the big thing is it takes a little more time to plan. Yes. And because the city gives us these allowances, like you said, we do the asbestos, we have the demolition permit in place. Builders can’t build, so the house sits there and gets infested by rats or it’s a hazard for other kids in the neighborhood.

0:33:38

Todd

Or people are looting, which has happened. Yeah. So why not take that time? And now I can take that six weeks or eight weeks or whatever it is, deconstruct the home at my leisure, handpick all the best pieces out of it. And then when I get my permit, I’m now able to go to build and I’ve got a surplus of material that I’ve already talked about with the designer. So I already know what I can salvage and then what has to be donated back to Habitat for someone else to utilize.

0:34:05

Todd

So yes, one extra step for the builder. But as a homeowner, you’re not losing time. And as I think we’ve already shown with the tax breaks and the ability to reuse material, it’s not costing you anything else. A little bit more work up front. But again, put the right team in place, which I know I preach this and I’m going to keep beating on this. But if you have the right team that’s willing to put that little bit of extra effort in, all of this becomes a no brainer.

0:34:31

Eric

That’s a great one. Just to comment on that. It was really great. I was watching the movie Formula One. with Brad Pitt.

And in that, he said is like, you know, if everyone does their part a little bit better, that basically goes from last to first. Yeah. And that’s all we need. Right. We need real estate agents to talk about, hey, congratulations on your home. Think about deconstruction. Let’s not just go straight into demo, you know, builders and developers. educating the clients on what’s happening. So everyone can do their part. It’s not just us, you know, one deconstruction company trying to do one thing. It’s the whole team and this is our city.

0:35:06

Todd

and we shouldn’t allow for homes in our history and where we lived for a long time just to be destroyed. Well, it’s part of our story. It’s how we grew up and it’s just being bulldozed. So, I mean, like we used, I know that we had that one house on Venable. The owner wanted to save the casings on the door because it told a story about his kids growing up. And on all the doors, it had little marks of where the kids grew.

And, and so I said, what a cool story. So I know like when we reframed his house, we’d kept all the casing and numbered it for the kids’ rooms. So that when he came back to the home, we still had all that door casing with all his kids’ growth marks on it. And we put it back on the kids’ doors. So I mean, little stuff like that. I mean, that’s where a homeowner has the opportunity to tell a little bit about a story about who they are.

0:35:54

Mike

Cause what better form of pride do you have in saying, I most of this material came out of my old house that I love so dearly. And it tells a little bit of story, a little bit of a story about who you are. And it gives the home, instead of a homeowner walking into a a brand new car and saying, well, I bought this Ferrari. I don’t really know anything about it.

0:36:11

Mike

It’s just really cool. Now you’re walking into a home where you said, you know what? I remember when they salvaged that wall and that countertop came from that cool, you know, we had one, we had the old bowling alley. So, I mean, your home now starts to tell a story about who you are as a person. And I think that’s the kind of excitement I want to start generating.

0:36:35

Todd

I mean, I realize I can’t build every home in Vancouver, but you know, the legacy homes is what I want to do.

And I think that’s the people that are around me, you know, Mike can attest to this because he’s done quite a few of my homes now.

Same with Eric.

0:36:42

Todd

I mean, we are, we’re creating something special and we want to be able to teach builders how to do that too.

0:36:47

Mike

So, speaking of something special, this has been a very special conversation and in many ways an inspiring conversation.

However, the least favorite part of hosting this podcast is when we run out of time at the end and we have to wrap it up.

0:37:01

Jennifer-Lee

Todd talked too much.

0:37:02

Mike

No, Todd talked.

0:37:03

Jennifer-Lee

No, you said really great stuff, Todd. Yeah, no, this was all great information and you know what I’m taking away from it is that deconstruction is the future. of construction. It’s going to help people like me, when it comes time, save money, save materials, offset the impact of building a new home. And most importantly, as we as an industry progress and grow and move ahead together, we can work together to hit our goals as a team. And there’s nothing more exciting than that as we look ahead.

0:37:37

Todd

100%. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Mike. Yeah. That was a good way to deconstruct it.

0:37:41

Jennifer-Lee

Absolutely. Deconstruct the whole conversation. I think you’re rubbing off on me, your dad jokes. Yeah, a little bit.

0:37:50

One more thing before you guys go. Todd, I know you’ve given us so many tips over the years. You cannot use the same one as you did last time. You got to give me a new tip. each of you for one thing homeowners should know. Okay, new tip, one I haven’t beat to death before on this.

0:38:09

Todd

You know what? Homeowners need to have the courage to be able to ask for and believe.

A lot of homeowners have said, I love the idea of salvage, but I was too afraid to ask.

Why not make it part of the conversation right out of the gate?

0:38:24

Jennifer-Lee

Like if that something that’s very close and dear to your heart, make it part of the conversation when you interview a builder.

0:38:30

Are they like -minded?

0:38:31

(Speaker 8)

Because the last thing you want as a homeowner or for yourself to be saying, you know, I probably could have done more and I missed my opportunity. So the one thing I’ve learned is because, I mean, by nature, no one will probably believe this, but I’m a little bit shy and I’ve had a hard time.

0:38:44

I definitely don’t think you’re shy, but that’s okay. Well, this is something that people have taught me too, Todd.

0:38:49

You know, you have valuable stuff to say and you should say it.

0:38:54

Todd

So I think that goes for the homeowners, too. Like if you if you believe and you believe in the sustainability and we hope they will then have that courage to say, OK, how do I as a homeowner get more involved and then let us educate you? Because I think that’s that’s the first thing is letting homeowners know that this is a really cool way to build and it’s only going to get is only going to gain momentum. So how do we educate the homeowner? How do we educate builders? How do we make everyone part of this plan?

0:39:25

Eric

Very cool. Very cool. Now you got to follow that. What is your tip? Hire Todd.

0:39:32

(Speaker 6)

That’s a great tip.

0:39:32

Mike

That’s a great tip. No, I’m thinking, you know, we live in the in the in the capital city of demolition in North America. There’s no other city that demos more homes than we do. We’re really good at it.

0:39:43

Eric

So it’s it’s number one is exactly that goes well with Todd is is being able to educate the homeowner and pass that information. But it’s also an opportunity for us as a city community to talk and talk more about deconstruction because we need bylaws that bring in a wood salvage plan for every home.

0:40:03

Jennifer-Lee

So that means that homes are recovered.

0:40:05

Mike

They’re not just recycled and turned into, you know, landfill, top fill. So, you know, talking to, getting the conversation going in the cities. District of North Vancouver is the only one that has a salvage, a wood salvage plan. which is fantastic because we can catch homes that are not, you know, being destroyed because they’re 1950 and older.

0:40:27

Todd

They need a 75 % wood reclaiming, wood salvage plan, which allows more deconstruction companies to start kind of coming in. So I would say it’s, it comes from the people. The people have the power and we need to keep talking about what we want. And demolition is only the option because they don’t know deconstruction is an option. Absolutely, well said. Well, I love that.

0:40:48

Mike

Let’s keep talking. And on that topic, it has been a great conversation, as it always is with Todd and Eric.

0:40:54

Jennifer-Lee

You’re welcome back here anytime. Oh, you heard it.

0:40:58

Jennifer-Lee

There’s the invite. You passed your first time.

0:41:01

Mike

Exactly. And you know what? There is one thing that we still have to do.

0:41:06

Mike

This is actually one of my favorite things to do.

0:41:08

We are so grateful to our audience, the people who watch this show, stream it on YouTube, and we want to do something nice for you.

So here’s what we’re going to do. If you share this episode, tell your family, tell your friends, tell people you meet on the street, say, Hey, measure twice, cut once. It’s the stuff. If you do that. You can win yourself a Napoleon Prestige P500 stainless steel natural gas barbecue valued at over $1,600, compliments of our podcast partners at FortisBC. All you have to do to win, in addition to listening to this episode, is go to www.havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce.  And for notes and links to everything mentioned on today’s episode, including resources shared by Eric and Todd, head to www.HAVAN.ca/MeasureTwiceCutOnce . And don’t forget HAVAN, the Home Builders Association of Vancouver is proudly affiliated with CHBA BC and CHBA National. That means our members and our homeowners that we work with benefit from three different levels of advocacy and education supporting anyone looking to build or renovate. Which is exactly why this podcast exists, to share knowledge and connect people across the industry.

0:42:15

Jennifer-Lee

And of course, we couldn’t do it without our partners, Trail Appliances, FortisBC, BC Housing, Rami Films, Jpod Creations, and AI Technology and Design. It takes a team to build a home and so does it to bring you this podcast. Thank you both for joining us. We’ll see you in the next episode. Thank you guys. Thank you very much.

0:42:33

Thanks guys.