Episode 87: 1908 to Net Zero Retrofit

A 1908 heritage home rebuilt for the next century – sound interesting? Todd Best (Best Builders) and Barb Silverthorn (Capture Energy) explain embodied carbon, circularity, smart materials, and the path to CHBA Net Zero and Built Green Net Zero Energy+. Tune in now!

Listen to “Ep 87: 1908 to Net Zero Retrofit Home Reno” on Spreaker.

You will also find “Measure Twice, Cut Once” on iTunes, Spotify, Spreaker, and on HAVAN’s YouTube channel.

TODD BEST, OWNER | PRESIDENT, BEST BUILDERS

Construction has always been instrumental in Todd’s life. Starting at a young age, each summer was spent on-site working for this father, Garry Best, who did commercial builds. Todd’s passion for building was evident early in life and he never doubted that one day he was going to own his own company. In 1994, Todd acquired his Red Seal in carpentry, and by the age of 27 had started Garry Best Design and Construction, which would later be shortened to Best Builders Ltd. In his spare time, Todd enjoys trips to Disneyland with his family and doing work on his hobby farm in Delta.

Listen and like for your chance to win a gas BBQ compliments of our Podcast Partner FortisBC.

Ep_87 Transcript

Ep_87

0:00:03

Mike

Welcome back to Measure Twice, Cut Once. I’m Mike. Very excited to be here again with another conversation. You know, Huey Lewis used to talk about the heart of rock and roll. Well, we’re here and we’re going to talk about the heart of building better.

0:00:15

Jennifer-Lee

Yeah. And I’m Jennifer Lee. And today’s episode feels like a little bit of a family reunion because we’ve had Todd on for quite a few times and we’ve welcomed him back. Todd from Best Builders is back in the studio.

0:00:28

Mike

And joining Todd, this is like an alumni reunion show here. Barb Silverthorne, another friend of ours from Capture Energy. Together, they’re going to walk us through the 1908 to Net Zero project. It’s an absolutely fascinating project. Some really amazing people behind it. What it is, is it’s a heritage home transformation that proves that sustainability and character can go hand in hand.

0:00:52

Jennifer-Lee

And you’re working on this project as well.

0:00:54

Mike

I am. Yeah. Like I said, wonderful people. And it’s it’s from the inside out. It’s such a different project. And the people behind it are such amazing people. So we’re going to learn about them and we’re going to get into this conversation.

0:01:08

Jennifer-Lee

Yeah. And I just love this evolution of the fact that, you know, you’re podcast host, but now you’re getting into the projects that we talk about. I love it. Full circle.

0:01:16

Mike

OK, so. We’ve got our fingers in everything here. Measure twice, cut once.

0:01:20

Jennifer-Lee

Mike already gave you a nice little blurb. But of course we have many different projects here on the show all the time. What makes this one special?

Todd

So I think for myself and I know for Barbara as well, like you very rarely get an opportunity to sit with a client and almost work the parameters of what, how he dreams a project to come together. Like this is ideal for me. This is what I’d like to see. So the project is in an area called Mount Pleasant, which of course is these all cute little heritage homes. So they loved the neighborhood, first and foremost. So he didn’t want to do anything that would affect his neighbors. So he wanted to have a net zero home. That’s kind of where it started. But he also wanted to keep the look of his heritage home.

And it’s a 1908 home. It’s a beautiful old home, but obviously it kind of reached the end of its life cycle. So as our dream sort of unfolded, it was, how do we take this heritage home, maintain it in the neighborhood, but also allow us to find the density that the city of Vancouver is looking for. So, of course, they want you to have a basement suite. They want you to have, you know, an infill project. And the question was, how do we do all that and meet net zero energy plus?

And then we started talking about carbon and recycling. So the project really started to evolve quickly. And luckily for us, we had a client that was very passionate and he’s, you know, we managed to put a really good team together here, including Barb and Scott.

0:02:48

Jennifer-Lee

And Mike. And Mikey. Exactly.

Mike:

Well, Barb, maybe you could talk to us a little about the carbon, because I think at this point, I mean, we’re in season 10 now. We spent a lot of time talking about building and designing amazing homes. So we’re pretty good there. But this idea of low carbon, zero carbon, this is an emerging methodology and technology. And I think this is going to be part of the conversation for many more years to come until it’s exclusively part of the conversation. Help us understand what the carbon this actually means so help us understand what it is and why it’s important if you wouldn’t mind please because this is a good conversation.

Barb:

Yeah like what the heck is embodied carbon right? So it is the carbon that is used when we extract materials, it’s the carbon that’s used when we transport materials, it’s the carbon that’s used when we manufacture materials, and then the carbon that’s used again to bring it on onto the site. So we can kind of think about it in simple terms as like the built-in carbon for the materials that we’re using. So there’s kind of the two sides of it, right? So that’s the embodied carbon. And then we also have the operational carbon. And Mike, Jennifer, Lee, we talked about operational carbon when I did the energy advising episode. Do you guys remember?

0:04:10

Jennifer-Lee

Oh no, you’re quizzing us now? Mike, you answer.

0:04:13

Mike

Of course I do. I have to go home and do some research after the episode.

0:04:18

Barb

It’s a complex conversation. So the operational carbon, which is what we have to achieve zero operational carbon to meet the CHBA net zero requirements, that’s the carbon that’s used when we’re heating our home, when we’re having a hot shower, when we’re using the barbecue. So it’s the carbon that’s being consume daily the operational carbon.

0:04:44

Jennifer-Lee

Yeah. So it’s all the fun carbon. Because it’s things that you’re doing that are fun, like barbecuing or showering. Yeah.

0:04:50

Barb

Yeah.

0:04:50

Jennifer-Lee

Staying warm.

0:04:51

Barb

Yeah. But that’s an opportunity for, for how you figure out the house to reduce that as well, which we’ll talk about later, right? Yeah. So that, that was like the, the goal that, that Brandon, um, the, the owner and Deep Green Developments that they set for us. Not only did they want to meet the CHBA net zero requirements, they also wanted to achieve as low embodied carbon emissions as possible.

Jennifer-Lee

So the idea is you’re reducing the amount of fun carbon.

0:05:19

Todd:

Wow. And you know, Meeting as a, I mean, I’m now doing this all the time, of course, but we’ve, you know, touched so many times on the integrated design process. And I think this was one of the things that Brandon really grasped onto right from the start. So we actually had hired all of our trades and said, this job is also sponsored by like, you know, UBC, BCIT, Net Zero Canada, Retrofit Canada, on and on and on. And we can go through sponsors. But the idea was we got them all, everybody in a room and said, these were our goals. We had this big charrette meeting with lunch and everything. And we got a chance to bounce ideas off as a group. So architect, interior designer, everyone had a say. Because of course, carbon is even, you know, as Barb touched on, do you ship materials in from Europe? Well, no, because actually there’s all the carbon that comes from bringing the stuff over. So, you know, one of the nice things we’re supporting the local economy. because it’s actually better for our carbon score. And we’re giving people an opportunity to showcase their carbon-free products on this project, which then we can now educate other builders on, this is all available locally. You just have to know where to look for it. So this is really an opportunity for us to teach other builders. how to do this.

0:06:34

Barb

And that’s one thing Todd and Best Builders is really great with. And one of the reasons we love working with them is Todd is so great about collaboration and also just sharing his knowledge. So one of the things that I love about this project is really how, you know, we’ve explored all different ideas. And Todd’s also really open to, you know, changing an assembly or making construction changes that allows us to use these lower embodied carbon products because this is all really, really new for a lot of people and we’re kind of at the forefront of this with this project.

0:07:28

Jennifer-Lee

Well, that’s something we don’t really think about is our carbon footprint when it comes to building homes, because, like you said, there’s a lot of products around the world which are amazing, but we forget about what’s in our own backyard. And I think in the last year, we’re kind of hearing that more like by Canadian.

Maybe it’s not exactly coming out of Vancouver, but there’s other provinces that have great products that we could be using, opposed to going outside the country and finding them.

0:07:55

Todd

Well, that’s the bonus of the carbon really is, you know, You know, you’re not necessarily, you know, we’re not pushing, buy Canada only. or, you know, we’re not trying to say, don’t buy in the U. None of that is really the goal. The goal, again, is to, there are very simple ways to reduce the carbon footprint.

 

Mine started as simple as, as a carpenter, and I’ve done heritage restoration, tons of it. It’s a shame when you watch a beautiful old home get mulched up into a pile of crap and stuffed in the dump. You know, we’ve been trying to reuse all kinds, even, you know, the wood from the forest fire in Merritt. We found a use for that on one of our projects and how to utilize that. But I think there’s opportunities out there. People just have to break out of their regular mindset, which is go to the store, pick it up, put it in a bag and bring it home and use it.

There are so many other products available if you just ask the question.

Jennifer-Lee

Also not being lazy, because that’s a problem too, is I find that we want, we live in this world that everything is so convenient.

Todd

And sometimes we don’t want to take a few extra minutes to figure out, is there a better solution? Well, and building really, you said you watch, having been in the industry this long, it’s gone from a time and place where old school builders built everything by hand, stick by stick. Now people are like, can I get a house in three months? And what’s that going to look like?

0:09:01

Jennifer-Lee

Can I order it on Amazon?

Todd

Well, I mean, that’s what Elon just launched, right? His new $10 ,000 homes. Does anyone want to go live in a home that takes 15 seconds to put together? And if you don’t plug it in right, it may not work. I mean, we’re trying to show people, really, there’s so many aspects to building now.

0:09:19

Todd

And I think the one thing I’m trying to do here at as I’m going towards, you know, the end of my era in the career, if you will, and I want to do more consulting and and and teaching and passing the business now on to my oldest boy is I want to be able to show other builders like asking the right questions, assembling a team that you can trust and talk to and then collaborating as a team. Like Mike, I don’t know anything about low voltage, but Mike sure does, and that’s where my strength comes from. As a company, my strength is in Mike when it comes to this. When it comes to the carbon energy, again, Can I help Barb?

Yes, But her and Scott are who I trust.

0:09:58

Todd

So we bounce off material choices, selections, everything.

0:10:01

Todd

I bounce off Barb, and then we go back and forth. Now, because we’re collaborating, it actually makes my job easier. I look like the really smart guy in the room, but guess what? It’s my team. You are the really smart guy in the room. Don’t kid yourself.

0:10:13

Mike

Well, the smart guy in the room is the guy that puts everyone together and then treats everyone equally. Well, actually, I respectfully disagree. Anyone can put a team of people together. The smart person in the room is the person who relies on people whose skills exceed their own in certain specific areas and lets them do what they do best. What’s been really exciting about this, because, of course, I’ve been involved with this, I think, before even you. So they’re absolutely wonderful people, and their vision is amazing.

0:10:40

Mike

So sitting around that design meeting was amazing, because there are certain of us, and not just me, there’s lots of people who come in much, much later in the project. And by able to have conversations in the beginning, we’re all able to shape the narrative and some of the decisions that don’t usually get made at the beginning. That’s really exciting. What’s really exciting though is the fact that as well, I’m not going to say we’re making this up as we go, but we’re figuring things out on the fly. All of us do. That’s the nature of the beast.

Even though we’re still at framing, we’ve already done sessions for the Home Builders Association to help other builders. We’re going to be up at the upcoming Home and Garden Show on October 5th at Van Dusen Gardens. And so we’re just at framing and we’re already sharing our learning. And that’s the really amazing part is everyone on this team is looking outward instead of inward. And that is the big transition that this help house is going to facilitate with the videos and everything else. The targets though are the really exciting part.

And that’s something that I don’t understand to save my life.

I understand how my contribution will help to them. Barb and Todd, let’s talk about some of the actual targets. This house is finally done. It’s finished. We’ve gone and done all the things we have to do. What does success look like other than our wonderful clients love their new home.

0:11:56

Barb

So, yeah, we have multiple goals with this project.

0:12:05

Barb

So one of the key things, too, in terms of all the people that are collaborating is the city of Vancouver has also been really, really vested in this project. Todd and I hosted them on site already when we were raising the house. uh you didn’t touch on it yet but um also um we’ve deconstructed the the main house and i know you’re going to go into that in more detail um and but that’s a big part of of the success is that we’ve not only just deconstructed the house um but they were using the materials back into the project. So when we’re talking about like circular economy or you know what’s in the backyard, we are literally using what’s in the backyard and renewing it and bringing it back to life. So it’s things like that that allow us to meet goals. So one of the really cool initiatives right now by the city of Vancouver is that if you build a house to CHBA net zero standards, then you can get an additional 19 % FSR. And Todd, what does that mean for this project?

0:13:18

Todd

I mean, well, it’s funny, 19%, when you say 9%, it doesn’t sound like a lot until you realize in some cases as this, it really allowed us to do another $300 million square feet on the house so 380 square feet was a really nice suite downstairs is what it turns into and as we’ve you know as this project has evolved because as you mentioned the city of Vancouver has you know graciously joined us as sponsors but But they were in, we went and sat with them old school when we did the permit and walked through what the project looked like, what goals we were trying to achieve. And the head of engineering there and the head of inspections pushed our permit through, you know, very quickly. So we hosted the sustainability department and the head inspectors down at the house to walk them through how we were deconstructing the home and how we could still meet all of our engineering standards and current building codes. So the city of Vancouver has been very excited.

0:14:13

Todd

We’ve also had a chance, instead of working against the city, where everyone’s always complaining, permits take too long, building inspector doesn’t understand me, now we can bring them in and say, this is how we’re doing this. Do you have any questions now? Is there anything you see that might be a concern? We even talked about solar panel layout and fireman access. did it all right at the beginning. So I didn’t have to worry about a slowdown or a stoppage.

0:14:38

Todd

All the questions were answered at the beginning of the job.

0:14:41

And I was allowed to have the input from Barb, the architect, the designers, everyone that said, do you see, you know, a risk or a downside to this direction? So before Todd just plunges ahead, because it’s quicker for me, quick conversation with my team, everything got approved, on I go.

So, you know, I think it just makes it easier.

The goals are easy to accomplish with the right team.

Net zero, people are maybe, you know, intimidated by net zero or, or, oh, how do I get a low carbon score? But if you have the right team in the place, really, the builders doesn’t do much thinking. Yeah. You know, well, I don’t know about that. But you know what I mean? Like, I mean, because I trust you.

0:15:21

Barb

Yeah. And that’s part of it.

And I think to the right team in place and earlier the process, then maybe right out of the gate, you really need all of those players. And so one of the key components of of being net zero is that we have to generate enough renewable energy. And in the city of Vancouver, most of the lower mainland, that means solar because we don’t really have enough wind here to use wind power. So we’re generating enough energy with the solar panels to offset the operational energy that is being used to to run the house.

0:15:59

Barb

So that’s like probably the That requirement we have to meet for the city of Vancouver, because we have taken advantage of this 19 % additional FSR.

But in addition to that, because that’s not enough, we’re also meeting built green net zero energy plus, which means that we’re actually generating a little more energy than what the house needs. So we’re actually giving some energy back to the grid, which is really amazing as well.

Jennifer-Lee

That’s why it’s so important, especially in early days, even before they hire you, is to figure out, hey, who do I need to meet with to understand this better? Because there are these incentives. There’s all this different stuff. But I would never know how to achieve any of this stuff if I didn’t sit down and talk with you or know about the incentives.

0:16:53

Todd

Because even you guys talking right now is going all over my head. Oh no. But you know, that that gets back to again, you know, interviewing a contractor isn’t just, you know, you’re not hiring just a contractor. So, you know, the guy that rolls up in the pickup in the old days, well, he’s got a ladder on his truck and he’s got a tool belt and he looks like he’s got a skill saw. No, he probably knows what he’s doing. Like that’s just not the case anymore because now you’re not hiring.

0:17:20

Todd

Just the contractor you’re hiring his support team. You’re hiring as you will like, you know, the rest of his family So who how is how does Todd work? What is his team? So Because when I get hired to do a job, I say, well, I’m bringing my whole team on board. And I’m not saying you don’t have a choice. I’m just saying this is the team I have really good chemistry with.

0:17:43

Todd

This is the team that’s done this same process over and over again. So when a homeowner interviews me, I also want them to know who I’m using as my fellow teammates, because these are the people I trust in the project.

0:17:55

Todd

It’s why I like to use Mike. I don’t know. Mike and I have been friends for a long time, but to be honest, we worked together first and then we built the trust and then we built established a friendship.

I refer Mike.  with my eyes closed, because I know exactly what I’m going to get from Mike every single time.

0:18:11

Todd

And the clients can trust that. So when you hire a builder, hire him, hire his team, understand his process. These should all be a typical questions that you ask.

0:18:25

Jennifer-Lee

And know about the knowledge too, because things change so much and so quickly.

And even like with the different codes that we have to follow here, specifically in Vancouver and every municipality is different. It’s like really making sure that your contractor and their team is up to all the requirements. Yeah, because if you start Googling all this stuff, it’ll just scare the bejesus out of you. Well, just talking to you guys right now has scared the bejesus out of me. You know what scares me? You guys know what scares me?

0:18:47

Mike

Having this amazing conversation and not taking a couple minutes to thank our amazing sponsors because we wouldn’t be able to have this conversation without them. So we’re just going to pause because we have a lot more questions, but first we’re going to thank our sponsors and we’ll be right back.

0:19:01

Jennifer-Lee

Measure Twice, Cut Once is grateful to our podcast partners FortisBC, BC Housing and Trail Appliances. Support from our partners helps us share expert knowledge and resources with families looking to build, design and renovate the home right for you. BC Housing, creating access to housing solutions that meets everybody’s needs is a guiding principle. BC Housing is working with governments, nonprofits, First Nations and residential construction industry members to create practical solutions to BC Housing challenges. To learn more about BC Housing initiative programs and services, go to www.bchousing.org .

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MIKE

Welcome back to Measure Twice, Cut Once. Now, before we took a break, we were talking about an amazing project, a 1908 home, heritage home, that’s being brought up to modern spec.

In fact, well exceeding modern spec. So we talked a little about our goals and we talked about, you know, some of the methodology and processes. Now it’s time to get into the good stuff.

How are we going to reach these targets?

So Todd, can you talk to us? I mean, let’s be honest. Okay. My house built in 1981.

I take my drywall down. I find two by fours. I find some insulation. and if I’m lucky, some Tyvek, I’m not so sure about that. Maybe asbestos. No, no, no.

Now, now. The materials we use are just as important as how we put them together. Can you talk about some of the materials that are used in this project in order to achieve these very lofty goals that we’re talking about?

Todd

Yeah, I’ll touch on some of them and then I’ll let Barb answer some of this too because, you know, from my standpoint, I can tell you I’ve been, again, been in the industry a long time. I turned 60 this year. And as a carpenter, it’s always been for me, you know, the love of wood and recycling and being able, because you can do such, you know, magical stuff with it.

0:21:42

So for me, it always stemmed from the salvage portion of it. After that, it was really doing a lot of research. And this came from, you know, Barb saying, oh, I’ve heard about this, you know, hemp bat. And I’m like, hemp bat? What the heck? And of course, there’s only one supplier and they were in Quebec.

0:22:01

And so I reach out to these people and go, hey, this is what I’m doing. What do you think? And they’re like, I’ve been waiting for a project to try this product on. So, you know, they want to jump on as sponsors. But I mean, this product exists. And again, work i want to be able to use this project as a platform to be able to introduce all these really cool because hemp bat i mean man that stuff is dense but i mean sound insulation values you know, and it’s a completely natural product.

So we’re not worried about, you know, sticking fiberglass in the walls and off gassing. And so and that’s just really the start, because we’ve also have, you know, carbon free concrete, which we also have a sponsor for the carbon. So they’ve, you know, graciously donated the concrete, so that we can talk a little bit more about carbon free concrete, because that’s a massive carbon score is the concrete whether you try to recycle it or you’re ripping it out again that you can kick your carbon in the pants. So you know a lot of the products that I am interested in you know again I bring it back through my checklist. So the checklist for me first is

If I can get past them, then I can go to the architect and say, does this suit the design criteria?

And then I can go through the costing process and go back to brand and go pluses and minuses.

This is what it brings to the table. Cost a little bit more, cost a little bit less. It’s going to take a little bit more work, but I’ve done all the research already. And really with the team in place, it, you know, that’s a couple of quick phone calls. They’re like, yes, we’re on board. And then, you know, and then, you know, you can talk about the, you know, how we’re using all the recyclable materials and do all the scientific geeky stuff.

0:23:37

Barb

I don’t know. Yeah. And make it easy for us to understand and don’t scare us. Yeah. You know, it’s it’s it’s funny. It’s like anything new, right?

It seems daunting at first. But really, all we’re talking about is is switching up some some of the materials. Right. So exactly what Todd said. So instead of using, you know, traditional fiberglass insulation, we’re using hemp insulation instead. And with the mechanical system, systems, you know, we’re altering them too.

0:24:07

And in some ways, it’s great because when we build these higher performance houses, they are really well insulated, they’re really airtight. So the mechanical systems become a lot smaller, because we don’t need, you know, the same size of equipment to heat and cool the home. And, you know, it’s, it’s not hard to, you know, every material has a data sheet that shows how much carbon goes into that material. So it’s just a matter of finding it. There’s simple software we use that kind of, we put in the materials we’re using. It tells us, you know, what our overall score is.

0:24:46

And so that’s basically how we work.

0:24:49

Whoever finds the product, and that’s one of the wonderful things about this is that, you know, even the owners have come up.

0:24:56

We’ve looked at everything. Remember the straw? We looked at straw insulation. and i’m like straw insulation and fire and you know one of the states where they use uh human hair clippings yeah go back to the straw are they talking like straw bales uh yeah no they i think they shred it really um they they shred the the straw and and compress it. It’s actually being made in in Alberta and it’s actually a really cool product. The only thing is it’s a bit thicker and so because we’re in the city of Vancouver and we’re really tight against you know setbacks it wasn’t feasible for this product project but you know these things are are out there and and they’re becoming you know, as we build more and more of these, these houses, I think we have about 40 right now.

0:25:47

So we’re still really in the infancy of, of this kind of building.

0:25:51

Um, but you know, we’re learning and, and just, you know, as, as more and more people are doing it and, and builders are, are, you know, taking on the challenge, the more products that become available to, for us to choose from. People are stepping out and saying, Hey, I have a product I want to try.

0:26:08

Todd

And I think, you know, what we’re trying to do here is give people the confidence to know that, hey, like, you know, we have two of these projects going right now. And we said, here’s your platform. What have you got? And then people just want to say, well, if you’re giving me an opportunity to try, And isn’t that really what it’s all about? It’s the same when you take on a young apprentice. You have to believe in them first and then give them the opportunity to actually try and see if it’s something.

0:26:34

We just hired actually Mike’s son for three weeks. That’s what I heard. I also heard you pumped with the ringer and you taught him what life was all about. They ripped the lazy out of that boy like you wouldn’t believe.

0:26:45

You got to come in and understand what life is all about.

0:26:48

what teamwork, what, you know, both believing in the guy next to you. I mean, this is all little stuff, of course, but shoveling that hole.

0:26:55

One of the things I was really impressed with, because honestly, you hire these young men and you think, OK, you’re on the end, women.

0:27:03

You’re getting on a bus at 430 in the morning.

0:27:05

You’re coming into work.

0:27:07

And a lot of these young guys, especially guys, you know, grade 10, grade 11, they last a couple of days and then realize, oh, my back hurts.

0:27:14

I don’t want to get up in the morning, go to the bus.

0:27:16

Every day he was there, on time, worked hard. I’d go to the job site and I could hear Nathan laughing in the back with the guys. Yeah.

0:27:24

Mike’s not believing it.

0:27:25

No, no, I do actually. But like on the third day, right? He goes, Hey dad, would it be okay if I took the day off?

0:27:31

I’m like, no, that’s not how the real world works. That’s not how life works.

0:27:34

So he went in.

0:27:35

Yeah.

0:27:35

Todd

So it’s just, it’s, but I mean, this should be the, the, the way you think about every aspect of your, project it’s how you treat your clients because obviously if everyone is happy in the group and Everyone gets along and there is no one saying okay.

0:27:49

Todd

Well, I’m you know, supreme dictator and everyone’s get in line.

0:27:54

That’s not going to be a very fun job.

0:27:56

It’s not.

0:27:56

Todd

And I like the fact that you’re very collaborative and you’re looking to different projects, products. I, uh, I went down a rabbit hole the other day of actually hemp Cree.

0:28:05

So I didn’t realize like how many different ways you could use hemp in a house actually.

0:28:09

(Speaker 19)

Yeah.

0:28:10

So did you see the interior finish of that?

0:28:13

It can be really beautiful. I didn’t know that.

0:28:15

Oh my God.

0:28:16

I have to go down more at it.

0:28:18

That’s a side hall.

0:28:19

(Speaker 1)

Yeah. My question though, like when we’re using these different products like hemp or straw that sometimes have a bit of an odor, do you smell anything from them or no? No, that would be hilarious if you did. We’re putting a lot of hemp in this project. We could do a scratch and sniff wall.

0:28:37

Todd

Like Willy Wonka. And on that subject. But when it comes to different finishes and stuff like that, not only just for the outside of the house, we don’t really ever talk about it when we talk about net zero is interior design. How does that? I would never even think that that would be associated together.

0:28:56

Todd

Yeah. Shout out to Josefina and Form Collective because they are also fully on board with this project. So we’ve also been exploring all low carbon finishes for the interior from the flooring to the paint. And the other thing that’s really cool is And again, this really it’s really hard to do these projects without a lot of really great collaboration, because Todd and I have had many conversations about how we’re going to reuse the materials that we were able to keep. So some of it we are using in in constructing in the infill, but also Josephine jumped on board and and we’re using some of that. We’re letting her use some of that, too.

0:29:35

Jennifer-Lee

Right.

0:29:35

Todd

And we had done it before.

0:29:37

Much like we had a project that we spoke to you guys about on Venables, our triplex.

0:29:41

Todd

And I think we were on here with with Ian McLean, because at that point, I mean that job’s about five years old, but you know we won all kinds of, you know, cool initiative awards from Fortis, that Fortis was sponsoring. So super thankful for us to sort of start that ball rolling, but then, and really it’s not like you’re going to score well i don’t think you score any points actually for interior finishing it’s more of the fact that we’re trying to follow a theme here so this isn’t about us saying oh we gained the most brownie points this is really showing that not only can we utilize it in areas of the home that you can’t see but we can also use some of this beautiful wood as some features, which is what we did then. You know, we used it for some door casing.

0:30:25

Todd

We used it for feature pieces, handrails, windowsills.

0:30:29

Todd

We used an old bowling alley as the countertop. So there was all these really these cool natural woods that people, like I said, we just throw them in the dump. And this is wood that’s been there for a hundred years. And even the nails become a really cool pattern. if you treat them and seal them right.

0:30:47

Todd

So I think that’s where Josefina, you know, got involved and started kind of grasping the idea of the recycling, utilizing other products that, you know, maybe we take for granted, you know, one man’s garbage is another man’s treasure.

0:31:00

Todd

So that’s kind of the, you know, what we’re trying to hold onto a little bit here.

0:31:04

(Speaker 2)

And I like that. I get it. It’s taking the time though. A lot of people, again, use the L word, lazy. it’s easier to throw things in the trash than able to recycle them. You need to have a love for it.

0:31:13

Jennifer-Lee

But I also think we’re creatures of habit.

0:31:15

Mike

That’s, you know, I talk to a lot of legacy builders. I do it this way because that’s how my father taught me to do it. And so the great thing is, and this is one of the things I respect about you immensely, is you are at a level in your career where you’re at the top of your game. You are one of the leaders in our industry and yet here you are you could have just as easily said let the kids handle it i’m just going to help right off the sunset and what you’re doing is figuring this stuff out as a gift to your kids so we can move on and start building the type of houses we really want to do so we’re Unfortunately, super limited for time because I feel like this is one of those conversations that could go on for hours and hours and hours. Or two. And we’re going to have Todd back on too.

0:32:00

 

Oh yeah, absolutely will. And we’ll probably have to have the rest of the team on eventually as well. What I’m curious about is this. Every time we make a decision to do one thing over another, we compromise certain areas.

0:32:13

So we choose certain materials because they’re low carbon, but maybe they don’t offer certain things. Can you talk about some of the compromises that had to be made and the premiums of taking this approach with a heritage home and a retrofit versus starting from scratch. Like, what are some of the wins, obviously, but what are also some of the compromises that had to happen that created those wins?

0:32:47

Barb

I think there weren’t a lot of compromises, to be honest. We were able to do this. That’s one thing that people do worry about. But honestly, we’re building a really resilient home, right? The goal is for this new home or retrofit home to last another hundred years. But in terms of the fit and finishes, the only thing I can think of is at one point there was a specific range. But it turns out actually the company has come up with an induction version of that. So she didn’t even have to give that up. I’m not sure. Was there anything else?

0:33:17

Todd

The only thing I would say is compromises for us. Ideally, because we met at the Charrette meeting at the very beginning, we were able to openly discuss compromises. If this product is too expensive, what’s an alternate product we can use so we can still get this feature? So that discussion, so instead of your contractor coming to you in the middle of the job saying, oh, you know what, we’re 100K over budget, so we’re going to compromise your cabinetry. We were able to actually deal with all this at the front of the job.

0:33:50

So we were able to say, we’re going to make a compromise here and we’re going to save over here and then we’re going to utilize this material.

0:33:57

So the whole team got involved and then no one said, Oh, it’s always me, the landscaper, you know, or it’s always me, the painter, you know, getting that. Cause we were able to discuss all of this stuff. And that’s the idea is when clients meet with builders again, you’re not hiring just the builder. Most builders will come to you and look at an old heritage home and say, Oh, just knock it down.

0:34:18

That’s because it’s easier for them. That’s not because it’s necessarily the right thing to do. So if you want to or you’re interested in low carbon energy, ask the questions and don’t be afraid to interview builders until you find the builder that suits your goals. That includes his team. Ask him, who do you use as a teammate? Is this gonna meet my requirements?

0:34:40

Is this gonna make me happy as the homeowner? Because you can do that now. And there’s lots of builders out there that are happy to do a big renovation and show you how to get the cost savings.

0:34:42

Jennifer-Lee

Well, it’s about finding the right people, which we talk about all the time on this show. But not only that, this is a really scary subject because I think a lot of people have the misconception that Oh, I will never be able to do this because it’s going to cost way more than a regular house. So how do you approach that with people? Because obviously you’re able to fit this in to a budget for your client.

0:35:12

Barb

Yeah. I think that, I mean, I’m not, I’m not going to say that you can build this house for the same amount as you could a house built to code. That’s not the case, but, um, I think, you know, and there, you know Todd says a lot of builder but there’s not a lot of builders that can do it.

0:35:33

It’s more complicated I think to do a full retrofit than it is to build a new home.

0:35:41

Barb

So there are, you’re in a class of builders there that have that unique set of skills. Sometimes there’s some benefits to it too, right? Like sometimes the existing footprint of the existing home is larger than what would be currently allowed on the site. So by keeping the existing home, you’re actually not losing square footage.

Todd

But it’s our job in Point Grey, we were going to knock that down and build a net zero home. And when we looked at the lot, we were only allowed to build a 2 ,300 square foot home on what is currently a 4 ,000 square foot home.

0:36:16

So after going through some negotiations with the city, they allowed us to keep the home if we brought it up to net zero standards. So that was, you know, so there’s some compromises. And again, this is where you don’t have to be scared of the city of Vancouver. You just have to know what questions to ask.

0:36:30

Barb

Yeah. And there are also like good programs as well to assist with the cost.

0:36:35

So there’s the Zero Energy Innovation Centre, ZEEC. So in terms of…

0:36:40

Another sponsor.

0:36:44

Basically, that’s initiative, the city of Vancouver to help builders and renovators trying to lower the embodied carbon.

0:36:52

So as you lower the embodied carbon, they’re actually giving a grant.

0:36:55

back.

0:36:56

There’s grants right now for solar panels. There’s interest when you’re doing a renovation or reconstruction. Up to $40 ,000. Zero interest paid back over 10 years. So there are things that help offset the additional costs. But I think the main thing in terms of an additional cost is for a full net zero in the city of Vancouver, where you want to take advantage of the additional FSR, it is adding the solar. is the additional cost.

0:37:25

Jennifer-Lee

So again, it’s coming to the right people to find out those incentives so they can walk you through it. And you don’t need to be scared. Exactly. Well, I feel like this is a follow -up conversation as we get closer to the end of it. But unfortunately, the eye in the sky is telling us it’s time to wrap up.

0:37:42

Mike

I’m the eye in the sky. No, the other eye in the sky. Oh, I was like, I’m in the traffic. But it starts with a D. Yeah, exactly.

0:37:51

Jennifer-Lee

You know, it does take a team of people to make this.

0:37:53

Mike

It’s not just Jennifer and me.

0:37:54

There’s some very smart people off camera who are saying wrap it up. Listen, we learn so much as we always do with both of you. And here’s what I’m taking away from it. First of all, thank you so much.

0:38:05

You helped demystify embodied carbon and the importance of it for a lot of people who may not be aware of where we as an industry are going.

0:38:12

You talked a lot about new methodologies and building a new materials and how they support that.

0:38:17

And that’s another conversation. I mean, we could have been here for three hours talking about that. But the eye in the sky would not allow such things. Really appreciated the conversation. I mean, these are amazing homeowners and their vision guided our team. And finally, you know, you talked a lot about compromises.

0:38:35

(Speaker 1)

And there’s always compromises in construction, but you also talked about how great collaboration at the beginning avoided a great deal of those compromises as well. So another phenomenal episode and great information as always. Thanks, Mike. I love coming here.

0:38:50

0:38:51

 

Jennifer-Lee

Yeah, we love having you.

And before you go, I always have to ask this to people, even though I know you’ve given us so many great tips, what is one last tip to the homeowner from both of you?

0:39:00

You can’t put your tip together.

0:39:02

They have to be separate.

0:39:02

Barb

Oh, pressure. Um, don’t be scared. Don’t be scared. Just talk to people. You know, reach out.

0:39:11

I love having conversations about this. You don’t have to give up much. You are, you know, and there are a lot of advantages, more resiliency. You know, now some of the banks are doing lower interest for high performance homes. There’s insurance companies that are reducing the premium for these homes. So not only are they just a nice to have, you’re actually, you know, this home that we’re trying to build should last another hundred years that’s that’s the goal.

0:39:40

Yeah and I think that would be my tip as well and I think on the episodes I’ve done this has pretty been been my tip on every one but you know.

Jennifer-Lee

You can’t use the same tip.

Todd

I’m going to alter it just slightly but again I always come back to you know for like even for myself when I when I interview a homeowner honestly if I if I get a bad vibe I’m not going to build your home. Fair. I don’t care how much you ask me, to be honest.

0:40:04

I want to have a good time. I want, you know, we have 25 carpenters. I want my guys, because if my guys are highly motivated and happy, they work harder and they work harder and then they care about the product and they’re going to give you an even better home and they’re going to see a lot more.

0:40:21

I want homeowners to know that I listen, my guys are listening.

0:40:26

When Mike comes, again the reason I promote Mike is because he’s a great listener. So this is almost like when you go into a marriage.

0:40:34

You’re not going to marry someone that never never listens to you, although my wife did.

0:40:38

But, um, you know, so you want, again, you want that collaboration right out of the gate and you should feel a good vibe when you meet your builder.

0:40:44

Todd

You should get the tingles on your skin.

0:40:46

This is a really good guy. I’m going to catchphrase that catch the builder tingle.

0:40:54

Um, because you should, and the builder should ask your kids, how they want to be involved.

0:41:00

Todd

And it should just be a fun experience. I think that’s the thing is if you get a good feeling, you got to follow that gut first and then get into the systems and the collaboration ideas. And, and, uh, you know, that said the product is meant to be a good time. You’re spending a lot of money, so you don’t get what you pay for. Yeah, well, Mike is a, maybe not, I won’t say he gives you the co -host, but great co -hosts love working with him.

0:41:24

Mike

But that’s a great tip.

0:41:25

Mike

Get the builder tingles.

0:41:27

Mike

Absolutely.

0:41:28

Jennifer-Lee

You know, we’d love to give you, our listeners, some tingles as well.

0:41:32

Mike

You know, let’s keep it going.

0:41:34

Todd

I’ve started something. You know what?

0:41:37

Jennifer-Lee

Yeah, this part will make you tingle.

Mike:

Hey, one of our amazing listeners or viewers will get a chance to actually win a Napoleon Beautiful stainless steel natural gas barbecue valued at about $1 ,700 Compliments of our good friends at Fortis BC and it’s real easy to win What you have to do is you have to follow us follow measure twice cut once Like us tell your family tell your friends even if you’re out in public walking around you see a stranger Hey check out measure twice cut once the point is you do that at the end of the season Someone’s gonna win one of these beautiful beautiful barbecues. Mike’s gonna come over and show you how to use it.

0:42:15

Jennifer-Lee.

Yeah We know Mike loves barbecue. That’s what I said barbecue give Mike the tingles.

And for notes and links to everything mentioned on today’s episode, including resources shared by Todd and Barb. Sound like a band, kind of. I like it. Yeah, we could be a good band. If only I could play an instrument go to www.havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce . And don’t forget HAVAN, the Home Builders Association of Vancouver is proudly affiliated with CHBA BC and CHBA National. This means our members and the homeowners we work with benefit from three levels of advocacy and education, supporting anyone looking to build or renovate. Which is exactly why this podcast exists to share knowledge and connect people across the industry. And of course, we couldn’t do it without our partners, Trail Appliances, FortisBC, BC Housing, Rami Films, j-Pod Creations, and AI Technology and Design.

0:43:07

It takes a team to build a home, and it does to bring you this podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. See you next time on Measure Twice, Cut Once.