A great deal can get expensive quickly if it isn’t actually a great deal. Join Simone Lis of the Better Business Bureau (BBB) BC & Yukon, as she shares the red flags every homeowner should know, how to compare quotes and read reviews, and where to turn if a renovation goes sideways.
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About the Speaker
SIMONE LIS, President & CEO, Better Business Bureau (BBB) BC & Yukon
Simone Lis is the President and CEO of the Better Business Bureau (BBB) Serving Mainland BC and Yukon. With over 23 years of dedicated service to the organization, she is an expert in marketplace ethics, non-profit management, and community advocacy. She holds a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology from the University of British Columbia. Based in Vancouver, Lis leads initiatives that foster trust, corporate transparency, and strong connections between consumers and local businesses.
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Episode Transcript
MTCO Ep 96: Know Your Pro
Audio transcribed using Ai technology. Spelling and grammatical errors can occur. We do our best to review and ensure proper nouns are correct, add hyperlinks, and continue to work with the programs to advance the results.
Resources mentioned:
- Better Business Bureau: https://www.bbb.org/local-bbb/bbb-serving-mainland-bc
- BBB Scam Tracker https://www.bbb.org/scamtracker/lookupscam
- Find a HAVAN member: https://members.havan.ca/directory
00:00:00,060 –> 00:00:15,880 [Mike]
[rock music] Hey, welcome back to Measure Twice, Cut Once. My name is Mike, I’m one of the hosts, and today we’re talking about trust contractors and how to know the people you’re inviting into your home before the work begins are the right people.
00:00:16,560 –> 00:00:31,800 [Jennifer-Lee]
And I’m JenniferLee, which feels important, Mike, because a great deal can get expensive quickly if it isn’t actually a great deal. Before we dive in, don’t forget to follow the podcast. We cover everything to do with buying, building, renovating, and designing your home.
00:00:32,400 –> 00:01:03,120 [Mike]
And today we’re gonna be asking some important questions that any homeowner should be thinking about before they hire anybody or start any project. We’re gonna talk about red flags and what do we do when a project does go sideways? It doesn’t happen very often, but when it does, what recourses do we have as homeowners? So this is gonna be a great conversation because our guest today is Simone, president and CEO of the Better Business Bureau for both BC and the Yukon. We all recognize the name, but let’s start with the basics. First of all, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:01:04,260 –> 00:01:13,760 [Mike]
What is the Better Business Bureau? If I’ve n- I’ve just moved here from Mars, I don’t know anything about it, explain what the Better Business Bureau does and what role does it play for both businesses and consumers?
00:01:14,860 –> 00:01:46,020 [Simone]
Well, thank… first of all, hi. Nice to meet you both. Um, the Better Business Bureau, very simply put, is a nonprofit organization with a mission to advance marketplace trust. And how do we do that? Well, we believe that if you have an informed, educated consumer and a business committed to doing the right things, you have the right place for trust to be built. And so that’s what we do, is we help connect consumers with businesses they can trust, we provide resources to consumers, and then certainly for businesses, we help them showcase that they’re trustworthy.
00:01:46,540 –> 00:01:55,700 [Mike]
And how do you do that? Like, what does… A- as a business owner, accreditation means everything, right? What does it mean for I, as a homeowner, looking at a business that has achieved that?
00:01:56,340 –> 00:02:23,660 [Simone]
Well, businesses that are accredited by the BBB, that means they get to show that sign of a, of a better business. Those businesses ha- have been vetted, they’ve been screened, um, they are monitored to make sure that they are meeting BBB standards for trust. Um, that’s things like, um, making sure that they’re properly licensed, um, being responsive to complaints if they should get one, um, advertising honestly. I mean, really things that all good businesses should do.
00:02:24,160 –> 00:02:39,620 [Mike]
Okay, one more question, because I know Jennifer’s got a bunch of questions she’s dying to ask as well. I’ve read about accredited, I’ve read about a Better Business Bureau rating, and simply having a profile on Better Business Bureau, bbb.org. What’s the difference between the three of them, just so consumers understand as well?
00:02:39,840 –> 00:03:27,060 [Simone]
Well, absolutely. Uh, we provide all our information to all consumers, and that is any, um, information that we might have on any business. So you don’t have to be BBB accredited for us to have what we would call a BBB profile. That’s the information that we provide out. Um, a BBB rating kind of speaks to the history that the Better Business Bureau has had on that business. Uh, we rate all businesses the same using the same sorts of criteria, and that looks at things like how long they’ve been in operation, background information, um, if they’ve had complaints, how they’ve been responsive to those complaints. All of those things go into a company’s rating. And then BBB accreditation, well, that speaks to their commitment. That speaks to them being a good business. That speaks to them being responsive to issues when they come to us.
00:03:27,540 –> 00:03:54,280 [Jennifer-Lee]
Before I ask you my rapid fire questions, which are gonna be just as hard as this one I’m about to ask you, I just had a thought because with the BBB, obviously with anything with reviews, we see them on Google all the time, sometimes there can be a disgruntled client that wants to wreck your reputation, and maybe it’s nothing that you’ve done. How do you guys really ensure that the feedback you’re getting back from everybody is legit about that business?
00:03:54,780 –> 00:04:34,700 [Simone]
Well, a lot of times people have, uh, two different ways to sort of share feedback with the Better Business Bureau. One is, is that they can come to the BBB and they can say, “I had an experience with that business.” It can be a great experience. It doesn’t have to be negative. Um, and we call that a customer review. I mean, most people are familiar with reviews ’cause, you know, you can see them in other s- uh, platforms as well. And then we have our complaint process. So generally, in our complaint process, when there is a concern, it’s not really our role to invalidate someone’s concern, but what we do do is try to connect consumer with business and give that business an opportunity to re-engage and, and resolve the issue. Most businesses wanna resolve the issues that they have with consumers, even when they disagree.
00:04:35,120 –> 00:04:45,120 [Jennifer-Lee]
Yeah. Well, there’s just always two sides to every story, so I just wanted to know how you guys handle that. And I also love, uh, when you guys are on the news and you do your holiday lists.
00:04:45,300 –> 00:04:45,340 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:04:45,340 –> 00:05:00,640 [Jennifer-Lee]
Like, uh, in Valentine’s Day, my favorite one is when you guys do the love scam. So you talk about the different tops, uh, top scams. You guys have a lot. I really tell people you should go to their website regardless, uh, of what you’re into, uh, because you guys have a lot of good resources.
00:05:00,840 –> 00:05:11,520 [Simone]
Absolutely. We have something called BBB Scam Tracker, so I mean, if you are interested in seeing what scams are happening where, we kind of got this little weather map and you can go there and look and read people’s experiences.
00:05:11,740 –> 00:05:20,020 [Jennifer-Lee]
That’s so cool. Okay, now for the tough questions. I feel like I’m going to, uh, investigate you now. [laughs] Interrogate you. Uh, what type of home do you live in?
00:05:20,760 –> 00:05:22,380 [Simone]
I live in a townhouse.
00:05:22,380 –> 00:05:24,620 [Jennifer-Lee]
Perfect. Work, remote, office, or hybrid?
00:05:24,980 –> 00:05:25,600 [Simone]
Hybrid.
00:05:26,440 –> 00:05:28,040 [Jennifer-Lee]
Office pet or no office pet?
00:05:28,720 –> 00:05:33,180 [Simone]
When I’m at home, I have two cats, so I guess you would call that office pet.
00:05:33,360 –> 00:05:33,980 [Jennifer-Lee]
What are their names?
00:05:34,660 –> 00:05:36,080 [Simone]
Molly and Rags.
00:05:36,220 –> 00:05:39,860 [Jennifer-Lee]
Okay, that seems legit. Uh, favorite new technology in homes?
00:05:40,460 –> 00:05:47,320 [Simone]
So my superpower is to break anything I touch that involves technology, so we’re pretty, we’re pretty low-key when it comes to technology.
00:05:47,340 –> 00:05:51,200 [Jennifer-Lee]
And that’s the truth. You had trouble getting in by the keypad today into the studio. [laughs]
00:05:51,200 –> 00:05:51,220 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:05:51,220 –> 00:05:56,800 [Mike]
But let’s assume that you got over that problem. What new technology would you want if it wasn’t an issue anymore?
00:05:57,060 –> 00:06:06,640 [Simone]
I think anything that makes your life easier. I mean, um, a fridge, uh, that would tell me what to make for dinner would be awesome, right? Especially if it gives you the recipe.
00:06:06,660 –> 00:06:07,960 [Jennifer-Lee]
There are microwaves that do that.
00:06:08,100 –> 00:06:09,020 [Simone]
Right? Like, how cool is that?
00:06:10,180 –> 00:06:15,760 [Jennifer-Lee]
So that’s what you need to get next. [laughs] Okay, uh, favorite, uh, music genre or band?
00:06:16,160 –> 00:06:24,360 [Simone]
Uh, anything playing on the radio. Um, I grew up in an age of, like, alternative rock, and so I’m partial to that, but it’s, like, anything that’s on the radio. I love music.
00:06:24,768 –> 00:06:26,408 [Jennifer-Lee]
Favorite neighborhood in Metro Vancouver?
00:06:26,828 –> 00:06:37,148 [Simone]
So hard. I grew up all over the place. I love the North Shore, love Point Grey. You know, in where I live right now, Pitt Meadows, they have this little hidden secret called Osprey Village. You can go down there.
00:06:37,148 –> 00:06:38,488 [Jennifer-Lee]
Oh, I love that village. It’s very cute.
00:06:38,668 –> 00:06:41,868 [Simone]
Yeah. So I– There’s so many wonderful places to visit in, in our community.
00:06:43,028 –> 00:06:46,848 [Jennifer-Lee]
How do you get around? Car, SkyTrain, bike, foot, or scooter?
00:06:47,508 –> 00:06:54,088 [Simone]
So I prefer to walk everywhere, but I ha- I do transit a lot. I often take the West Coast Express, SkyTrain, and bus, and I drive.
00:06:55,128 –> 00:06:56,268 [Jennifer-Lee]
Favorite weekend getaway?
00:06:57,608 –> 00:07:05,168 [Simone]
Again, I love to travel, so it’s a combination of either, uh, staycation or a few weekends ago we went to Whistler. Loved doing that.
00:07:05,908 –> 00:07:08,648 [Jennifer-Lee]
One of the best moments you ever had at the BBB?
00:07:09,508 –> 00:07:12,988 [Simone]
So my challenge is I’ve been with the organization since 1999.
00:07:13,088 –> 00:07:13,568 [Jennifer-Lee]
Oh, wow. [laughs]
00:07:13,568 –> 00:07:32,948 [Simone]
And I… Yeah. So it’s been a long journey and, and, I mean, I’m still with the organization. Part of the reason why I’m with the organization is it’s, it’s so worthwhile. And what makes it worthwhile is actually getting out and talking to businesses. Um, last week I saw one who was an, a travel agent and had been BBB accredited for forty-five years.
00:07:33,348 –> 00:07:33,388 [Jennifer-Lee]
Wow.
00:07:33,388 –> 00:07:43,328 [Simone]
So those kind of things make me feel really good. And then of course, also, um, talking to consumers who feel like someone finally paid attention to their issue and was helping them resolve it.
00:07:43,788 –> 00:07:49,928 [Jennifer-Lee]
I just feel like that’s a podcast in itself, thinking about when you started in the 90s to now, because obviously technology-
00:07:49,988 –> 00:07:50,128 [Simone]
Yeah
00:07:50,128 –> 00:07:58,168 [Jennifer-Lee]
… has changed so much. What were the scams like before to now? Like, because we would have, like, dial-up phones, regular phones, of course.
00:07:58,168 –> 00:07:59,428 [Mike]
I bet they involved a fax machine.
00:07:59,428 –> 00:08:02,068 [Jennifer-Lee]
[laughs] A fa- Could. There were probably fax scams.
00:08:02,188 –> 00:08:10,468 [Simone]
Right. Absolutely. I remember our fax machine coming in with all the different scams that we still see today, but what has evolved is the technology.
00:08:10,668 –> 00:08:12,688 [Jennifer-Lee]
And people are probably like, “What’s a s- [laughs] a fax machine?”
00:08:12,688 –> 00:08:16,968 [Mike]
Yeah, the fax theory scams involved them. Well, let’s talk about scams for a second. I wanna preface this-
00:08:17,008 –> 00:08:17,028 [Simone]
Yeah
00:08:17,028 –> 00:08:47,548 [Mike]
… by saying, hey, guess what? Majority of people we work with here in the Home Builders Association, majority of business owners start every day from a place of integrity. So these things are few and far between, but because they atten- they take up a lot of airtime, it’s gonna feel like a bigger problem than it is. But let’s just quickly talk about this, and I’m gonna preface this also by saying before I was the host of this podcast, I knew nothing about this world. And we had some renovations done twelve years ago, and it didn’t go the way it should have gone. I, I know now what I could have done differently, but I didn’t know then. And as a homeowner, I really wish I had known about these resources ’cause it would have made our lives a lot easier.
00:08:48,988 –> 00:09:04,288 [Mike]
But when we talk about our homes, [sighs] typically it’s the single biggest investment most of us have. So anytime we do anything with our homes, it can have a ripple effect on things like our retirement, our cash flow, and all sorts of other things. But it’s also where we live. It’s where families get together, where we gather and spend most of our lives.
00:09:05,368 –> 00:09:10,168 [Mike]
If it turns out that building or renovating a home gets too expensive and budgets get tight,
00:09:11,408 –> 00:09:13,348 [Mike]
sometimes people come to the table with some deals-
00:09:13,568 –> 00:09:13,648 [Simone]
Mm-hmm
00:09:13,648 –> 00:09:29,788 [Mike]
… that seem like a better deal than it is. And we’ve learned this on the show all the time. If you get three different prices from three different contractors and two are the same and one is radically different, something isn’t right. [sighs] We now have to think about, okay, some of us have fallen victim to these things,
00:09:31,588 –> 00:09:45,708 [Mike]
and one of the things I think is most powerful about the Better Business Bureau, one of the things that’s always resonated with me, is it’s an avenue or a channel for me as a homeowner when I can’t work directly with the people I’m trying to resolve an issue with.
00:09:45,848 –> 00:09:45,968 [Simone]
Mm-hmm.
00:09:47,388 –> 00:10:01,328 [Mike]
Given that you do this for a living, I mean, we hear a couple scams here or there. You must have heard about all of them, right? And, and like I said, they’re few and far between, but when they’re there, they’re there. We have to deal with them. Right now, currently, we were joking about fax machines earlier. That’s kind of done now.
00:10:02,548 –> 00:10:10,488 [Mike]
These days, what are you seeing at the Better Business Bureau when it comes to home renovation or home improvement scams? Like, what’s the most prevalent things that should red-flag us as homeowners?
00:10:11,108 –> 00:10:55,828 [Simone]
I would say it’s generally very similar to what I, what I saw when I first started, interestingly enough. Uh, someone shows up at your door or you find, like, a really cool flyer for a company, and they’re offering you a really good deal. Uh, maybe they’ve just done your neighbor’s house and they’ve noticed that there is a problem, um, and they are pressuring you to make a handshake deal right away and, and pay by cash, so untraceable. Um, maybe, if you’re lucky, they start the work, or maybe not lucky, um, and then you can’t figure out when you need to contact them because something goes wrong, how to get ahold of them. Or maybe they just take the cash and you can’t find them at all. Um, that does s- seem to be and continue to be one of our most common scams.
00:10:56,048 –> 00:11:07,008 [Mike]
Okay. And with AI and some of the new technology coming about now, what are we seeing that are newer, that are a little bit more believable, for lack of a better word? Like, what are you seeing right now that should set off some red flags for us?
00:11:07,148 –> 00:11:41,608 [Simone]
Well, I would say, like, what the technology is being used to make it a little bit more, um, damaging is that, you know, it used to be that if you did wanna do your research, yeah, you know, you would… it would take more time for a business to establish that, that background. Uh, now, um, sometimes these companies will show up and they’ve built a reputation. Um, they’ve created a website. Um, they’ve targeted you through social media. Uh, they are really good at, at getting reviews that are showing you that perhaps they’re a company you can trust, but in reality, th- they’re not.
00:11:42,568 –> 00:11:47,488 [Jennifer-Lee]
And I’m assuming that you probably are starting to hear crypto scams as well coming through too.
00:11:47,728 –> 00:11:52,408 [Simone]
Yeah. I mean, investment and cryptocurrency scams always make our number one list.
00:11:52,608 –> 00:11:53,288 [Jennifer-Lee]
Wow.
00:11:53,948 –> 00:11:53,948 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:11:53,988 –> 00:12:01,908 [Jennifer-Lee]
Yeah. It’s just, it’s so interesting because, I mean, even thinking about you mentioned door-to-door, there’s unsolicited calls. Is there much door-to-door, uh, scams?
00:12:02,308 –> 00:12:03,168 [Simone]
Still happening.
00:12:03,228 –> 00:12:03,248 [Jennifer-Lee]
Really?
00:12:03,248 –> 00:12:57,068 [Simone]
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there was one story that was reported to us about, um, someone had, you know, they had been in the neighborhood, they had knocked on the door, they had offered to do a chimney inspection for three thousand dollars. And, uh, the consumer, uh, let the person start the chimney inspection, and lo and behold, now they’re being told, uh, that there was more repair needed. And before that consumer knew it, they were out of pocket twenty-two thousand dollars. And then when they started to do their research, the red flag radar went off. They talked to another business, a legitimate business, who said, “I would have done that for thirty-five hundred.” Um, they found out that the website was really new, but in reality, the business had said to them, “You know, we’ve been around for many years.” So there were some red flags, but I mean, our goal here is to, like, tell consumers if someone does show up at your door, pause, stop, [chuckles] do your do- due diligence. Like, check this business out. Make sure that they’re the one you wanna deal with.
00:12:57,528 –> 00:13:01,888 [Jennifer-Lee]
I was just… Because I was like, a lot of people don’t even wanna go to the door and talk to people anymore-
00:13:01,968 –> 00:13:01,988 [Simone]
Yeah
00:13:01,988 –> 00:13:17,408 [Jennifer-Lee]
… so I, I’m sur- And a lot of people don’t open their doors, so I didn’t realize that was something… Same thing with texts and calls. Um, I just feel like is a really successful, like, rate for these scammers? Because… I, I never pick up. If I don’t know the call, I don’t pick up.
00:13:17,828 –> 00:13:20,488 [Simone]
But if you do pick up, it’s harder to say no.
00:13:21,068 –> 00:13:21,328 [Jennifer-Lee]
True.
00:13:21,568 –> 00:13:32,928 [Simone]
Because we don’t practice those skills anymore. And when someone comes to your door, um, or they were just dealing with your neighbor and your neighbor trusted them, right? Like, they’ve kinda got, they’ve kinda got a window into your soul.
00:13:33,868 –> 00:13:41,848 [Mike]
They do that… We’re, we’re out in South Surrey and we’re in the burbs, and we’ll get knocks on, “Hey, we’re doing work on your neighbor’s house.” And, “Okay, I’ll go talk to them,” and they leave. So, um-
00:13:42,048 –> 00:13:42,928 [Jennifer-Lee]
You’re like, “Go away.” [chuckles]
00:13:42,928 –> 00:13:47,328 [Mike]
Absolutely. And then I point out, “That guy’s a cop, that guy’s a cop, that…” And they’re gone, gone from our streets.
00:13:47,328 –> 00:13:49,688 [Jennifer-Lee]
And my wife’s a prosecutor. [chuckles]
00:13:49,688 –> 00:13:49,828 [Simone]
Good tip.
00:13:49,828 –> 00:14:06,328 [Mike]
Well, yeah. [chuckling] She’ll deal with them afterwards if the cops do their job. Um, end of the day, these things happen, and they, they don’t… It’s not… They don’t happen to gullible people. They happen to normal people because these people are so convincing, and they play on our emotions. And it’s just really nice to know
00:14:07,548 –> 00:14:08,688 [Mike]
that we have a recourse-
00:14:08,828 –> 00:14:09,048 [Simone]
Mm-hmm
00:14:09,048 –> 00:14:10,428 [Mike]
… to deal with these problems.
00:14:10,568 –> 00:14:10,628 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:14:10,908 –> 00:14:15,488 [Mike]
Because it really, when it’s happening, you feel like you’re alone in it, and it’s stressful and it’s frustrating.
00:14:15,668 –> 00:14:15,688 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:14:15,688 –> 00:14:20,868 [Mike]
And having someone who listens and cares is really imperative to helping you resolve these problems. They happen-
00:14:21,028 –> 00:14:21,048 [Simone]
Yeah
00:14:21,048 –> 00:14:22,028 [Mike]
… but there’s always a solution.
00:14:22,408 –> 00:14:36,688 [Jennifer-Lee]
And can you give us a quick tip as well of, like, if someone comes to your door, what should you be thinking about? Like, if I c- come in and I’m gonna try to give you some painting services, [chuckling] what should you as the homeowner be asking?
00:14:36,688 –> 00:14:37,368 [Mike]
Or chimney inspections.
00:14:37,368 –> 00:14:38,728 [Jennifer-Lee]
Or chimney inspec- I don’t know. I was, like-
00:14:38,788 –> 00:14:38,968 [Simone]
Or paved ways
00:14:38,968 –> 00:14:40,568 [Jennifer-Lee]
… trying to come up with an example. Yeah. [chuckling]
00:14:40,588 –> 00:15:09,868 [Simone]
Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think you first wanna ask yourself, do you wanna be solicited door to door, right? Like, do you want someone coming to your door? And if the answer to that is no, then don’t reinforce the behavior by, um, even having the conversation. So put out the sign that says, “No solicitations.” Now, if they’ve come to your door, I would say tell them you don’t do business with people who come to your door. Um, now, if you really wanna do business, take information from them and then take the time to research them. Like, really take the time.
00:15:10,348 –> 00:15:12,028 [Jennifer-Lee]
Yeah, you don’t have to order on the spot.
00:15:12,148 –> 00:15:12,288 [Simone]
No.
00:15:12,288 –> 00:15:15,488 [Jennifer-Lee]
That’s what they, they come and they’re like, “But the deal is only right now.”
00:15:15,888 –> 00:15:16,148 [Simone]
Walk away.
00:15:16,148 –> 00:15:19,488 [Mike]
Well, there, there’s a lot of, like, same thing at a timeshare presentation, right?
00:15:19,528 –> 00:15:19,588 [Jennifer-Lee]
Yeah.
00:15:19,588 –> 00:15:42,508 [Mike]
They, they use a lot of emotional control to get us to yes. And the best thing we can do for ourselves is say, “Let’s sleep on it.” That alone will weed out 50% of the people. Simple as that. And, and it’s, it’s about training ourselves as consumers. We were, we were raised in an era where people go door to door. We could trust them. It was okay. Game has changed. We just have to change how we think about things, too.
00:15:42,968 –> 00:15:43,048 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:15:44,408 –> 00:16:16,788 [Jennifer-Lee]
Um, so we know by this point that, uh, y- you and I have talked about this, but my dad owned his own construction business for very y- uh, very many years. We were BBB members for a long time as well. [inhaling] Um, what’s, what are some tips that you can give us for, like, when you’re looking to hire a professional and make sure that they are, they are a professional? Because sometimes there are… I- I’ve seen it. People are on the BBB, and they might not necessarily be members, but like you said, you can put your, your, uh, information up there. So how do you know that they are a legit business to go with?
00:16:17,268 –> 00:16:42,228 [Simone]
Well, first of all, I would tell you to start by doing some research on the business itself. So you can come to the bbb.org. We do provide information. It’s gonna give you background information. It will tell you if we’ve had any complaints and how they responded. Uh, you can see how long they’ve been in operation. I’d also c- really, um, ask you to ask them what kind of, uh, credentials do they have? Do they belong to any industry associations?
00:16:42,228 –> 00:16:43,408 [Jennifer-Lee]
Like Haven. [laughing]
00:16:43,408 –> 00:16:43,648 [Simone]
Like Haven. [laughing]
00:16:43,648 –> 00:16:44,428 [Jennifer-Lee]
There we go.
00:16:44,428 –> 00:17:00,508 [Simone]
Right? I mean, because that tells you that they’re investing in, um, professional upgrading and making sure that they know what they’re doing. Um, but I mean, that’s about do they have the right skills to do the job that they’re doing. The other part of it is making sure that they’re a good fit for you as a consumer.
00:17:01,928 –> 00:17:10,408 [Jennifer-Lee]
And, and something we run into always, and I, and I, and might kind of allude a little bit to it, is that a lot of people, too, the consumer wants to focus on price.
00:17:10,708 –> 00:17:11,008 [Simone]
Mm-hmm.
00:17:11,248 –> 00:17:25,428 [Jennifer-Lee]
They, uh, especially right now, things are expensive, and people want a cheap price. What would you say when people are asking for pricing from multiple different companies? What… Where should you lead to with that?
00:17:26,028 –> 00:18:04,468 [Simone]
I would say price is not the only factor. I mean, number one, you are o- I would highly encourage people to get more than one quote. I’d say three, at least three. And if one is significantly lower than the other two, I would wanna know why. Um, but it’s really important when you are comparing, uh, three different quotes to be understanding what’s covered in the quote. Um, do you wanna pay more for someone who, for example, is hire- providing you a higher warranty? Uh, or do you wanna pay for higher grade materials? All of that should be on your quote. And then if you are able to compare apples to apples, at that point, maybe then price becomes more of a consideration.
00:18:04,908 –> 00:18:48,708 [Jennifer-Lee]
And another thing that I think people forget to ask, and it’s a question that my dad got a lot, is like, when you are sitting down with a prospective client and the prospective client is talking about possibly hiring you, I think that client should ask you, “Are you gonna be on the site? Are you the one that is gonna be my point person?” Because sometimes, not that it’s bad, and there’s some great companies that structure like this, but sometimes, though, when it’s not the person you meet with, you get passed onto someone else, and then that relationship’s not that great because that person’s not necessarily on the site or, or h- holding the trades accountable and, and the timeline kind of gets away. So again, what type of resources do you guys have that people could look into?
00:18:48,988 –> 00:18:54,248 [Simone]
Well, again, I would encourage… Th- that’s a great question. Are you hiring sub-trades, or will you be doing the work yourself?
00:18:54,268 –> 00:18:54,328 [Jennifer-Lee]
Mm-hmm.
00:18:54,548 –> 00:19:16,988 [Simone]
Who will be my key contact? I mean, you also wanna make sure you ask questions like, um, do you have a business license to operate? Uh, are you WorkSafe registered? I mean, it’s not just about, um, making sure that, you know, that they have the qualifications, but also have they set themselves up appropriately for a business? And sometimes when, um, the price is lower, they’re cutting costs in other ways.
00:19:17,228 –> 00:19:22,628 [Jennifer-Lee]
And my dad’s favorite question, he says you should be always asking a builder, is, “What is your liability insurance?”
00:19:22,648 –> 00:19:24,148 [Simone]
Mm-hmm. Do you have liability insurance? Absolutely.
00:19:24,148 –> 00:19:25,388 [Jennifer-Lee]
Do you have… And how much?
00:19:25,488 –> 00:19:25,508 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:19:25,508 –> 00:19:28,788 [Jennifer-Lee]
Because a lot of people don’t, unfortunately. So…
00:19:30,516 –> 00:19:40,536 [Mike]
All I’m gonna say is when you’re having conversations with professionals, you may wanna have more than one conversation before making a decision. And I preface that by saying any of us who are married rarely got married on the first date.
00:19:40,536 –> 00:19:41,136 [Jennifer-Lee]
[laughs]
00:19:41,136 –> 00:19:41,836 [Mike]
Take some time-
00:19:41,856 –> 00:19:42,676 [Jennifer-Lee]
Some people. [laughs]
00:19:42,676 –> 00:19:43,756 [Mike]
Well, yeah. Um-
00:19:43,976 –> 00:19:44,716 [Jennifer-Lee]
Vegas?
00:19:44,776 –> 00:20:05,936 [Mike]
Yeah, exactly. But for those of us not playing the Vegas game, and we don’t wanna be playing that in our houses, you know, take some time, have a couple meetings. Will they have a follow-up meeting to clearly explain and articulate their, their, their services and why you should work with them? That alone is the red flag. If they’re too busy then, are they gonna have time for you when your project starts? But let’s assume we’ve gone through all that. Let’s assume we’ve [clears throat] found a great person to do some work on our home,
00:20:07,816 –> 00:20:08,796 [Mike]
or we think we have.
00:20:08,976 –> 00:20:10,856 [Jennifer-Lee]
You’ve dated. [chuckles]
00:20:10,856 –> 00:20:21,556 [Mike]
How do I know who to actually trust? Is there some sort of checklist we can use to make sure that we are answering all the questions we need answered so that we’re putting ourselves in the best possible position for success?
00:20:21,956 –> 00:21:02,456 [Simone]
Well, here’s where I would say that, you know, on our website, we’ve got some great resources. Um, and so y- there is a, a document that speaks to all the questions to ask, um, that will cover off on things like licensing and things like that. So I would go to bbb.org and, and take a look at some of that information. Um, I’d also say that, you know, as you’re going through a scope, as you’re planning out your project, you may start to realize that you didn’t ask the first contractor that you were dealing with all the questions you need to ask. Um, and so it is really important to recognize exactly what you said, is that trust is often built over time. And so if someone isn’t being responsive, um, there is no reason why you can’t pull out. Uh, make sure it’s the right time for that.
00:21:03,136 –> 00:21:13,996 [Mike]
Okay. And the other question I have for you is, I’m just gonna come out and say it. Sometimes we’ll look at businesses and we’ll see reviews written that may or may not have been written by the business owner’s mom or family member, right?
00:21:14,076 –> 00:21:14,436 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:21:14,436 –> 00:21:23,596 [Mike]
So we live in an era where we place a lot of our dec- decision-making on online reviews. We have Google, social media, Reddit, of course, Better Business Bureau, and all these AI search tools.
00:21:24,756 –> 00:21:31,356 [Mike]
How much weight should we actually put on consumer reviews? Like, how much can we actually trust, uh, the validity and legitimacy of those reviews once they’re up?
00:21:31,936 –> 00:21:51,476 [Simone]
Well, I would encourage people to look at trends. So if you are looking around and you see a company with a whole bunch of, like, five-star reviews, um, and they all look like they’re saying the same thing, um, I would also look at things like, uh, you know, have all those reviews come in all at once? To me, that’s a huge red flag, right?
00:21:51,476 –> 00:21:51,876 [Mike]
Right.
00:21:51,876 –> 00:22:24,596 [Simone]
Especially if the company is brand new. And, and again, to your point, if they all share the same last night, name, that might be a- an issue as well. The flip side of that is, say a company has one or two, you know, unhappy situations. How has the business responded to that? I mean, often I take more value in a business that’s responsive and sharing the other perspective. To me, that demonstrates that they care, that they care about their reputation, that they care about this client, and that is almost more important to me than that one negative interaction.
00:22:26,236 –> 00:22:26,456 [Mike]
So if I do see that negative interaction, should that be a red flag, or is that just a, a cause to dig a little deeper?
00:22:33,856 –> 00:22:53,456 [Simone]
In my opinion, in this world, I think most people have… You know, they have unhappy, um, customers. So I would say, like, one review, it isn’t… it’s not gonna stop me from doing business. Um, now if the company isn’t responsive, um, you know, if it’s not demonstrating that, to me, it would, it would tell me to do more research.
00:22:53,536 –> 00:22:58,676 [Mike]
Yeah. Well, the flip side of that is sometimes consumers have unrealistic expectations, and they take that frustration out. So-
00:22:59,016 –> 00:22:59,196 [Simone]
Yeah
00:22:59,196 –> 00:23:16,676 [Mike]
… it’s important to sort of read between the lines as well. One last question on this topic. Uh, of course, AI has made it easier to do a lot of things. It’s also made it a little bit harder to do certain things as well. Has AI made it harder to determine whether a business review or recommendation is legitimate, or is there actually more of a chance that we’re gonna get legitimacy through it now?
00:23:17,636 –> 00:23:56,376 [Simone]
I would say that if you’re using AI as your screening tool, you need to do second checks and more validation. Um, you need to check original source information, and we know that AI hallucinates at times, and the, the information that it depends on at times may not be accurate. So I would, I would really encourage people to do their research, check multiple sources. Um, you know, through the Better Business Bureau, through our review process, we do have an internal process that sort of speaks to weeding out some fake reviews. And before anything gets posted, we send it to the business to confirm consumer interaction and also to give a business a chance to respond. We believe that that’s really important, and it ties right back to our values.
00:23:56,996 –> 00:23:58,956 [Jennifer-Lee]
Well, like Mike said, it’s like being married-
00:23:59,096 –> 00:23:59,336 [Simone]
Yes. [chuckles]
00:23:59,336 –> 00:24:23,796 [Jennifer-Lee]
… and you wanna make sure that you have a great relationship. But sometimes, like Mike was saying, sometimes the complaints can be very, uh, [chuckles] he did it, she did it, uh, pointing fingers. How do you actually know if it’s just, like, maybe the relationship went sour and they’re getting a divorce and there was actually no deliberate wrongdoing on either end?
00:24:23,796 –> 00:25:19,396 [Simone]
Well, I would say, I mean, through the Better Business Bureau, we’re not looking to put fault on any party. Really, it is about someone has an issue. Our role here is to act as an intermediary to try to resolve the dispute. And then what our, um, complaint process does ultimately is shares the information so that you, the person who is reading the information, can make your own informed choice. Um, again, any company… I mean, when we think about a big home renovation project, there are so many opportunities for something to go wrong. Um, and most businesses do their best to make sure that they’re dealing with everything. I think a lot of times what we see at the Better Business Bureau is that perhaps the business didn’t realize that this was as important to the consumer as it was, and they haven’t dealt with it within the timelines that the consumer expected. And so by having the Better Business Bureau come in, we’re able to help, um, the two parties come back to the table together.
00:25:20,216 –> 00:25:24,916 [Jennifer-Lee]
Can you give us one story of when a homeowner was unhappy and came to you guys?
00:25:25,556 –> 00:25:28,596 [Simone]
That wasn’t happy and came to us? Um, yes. Like-
00:25:28,656 –> 00:25:29,796 [Jennifer-Lee]
That was… Did I say was?
00:25:29,796 –> 00:25:32,176 [Simone]
[laughs] I don’t… Uh, did you say was or was not happy?
00:25:32,216 –> 00:25:33,416 [Jennifer-Lee]
Was like… [laughs]
00:25:33,416 –> 00:25:34,536 [Simone]
Give us a complaint story?
00:25:35,620 –> 00:25:45,700 [Jennifer-Lee]
Give us the gossip. [laughing] Um, basically… [chuckling] Okay, so let me redo it again. Um, can you give us an example when a homeowner wasn’t happy and they came to you?
00:25:46,400 –> 00:26:34,660 [Simone]
Yeah, we often get complaints where, um… For example, I saw one where there was a, a fencing, um, contractor was hired to do some fencing. Uh, after the product was put up, the consumer noticed that it wasn’t similar to the sample that they had seen, right? So here’s a situation where, um, legitimate company, they just wanted to do a good job. Consumer had an expectation that wasn’t being met by the product that was being put up. Um, through the BBB, the offer was to come back and try to correct it. Um, there, you know, there are opportunities to try to resolve that sooner. Did the consumer… Were they aware that sometimes the samples don’t match the end product? Did they do a test sample, uh, before they finished doing the whole project? I don’t know. But there are… through tho- that process, um, through the BBB, we were able to help support.
00:26:35,940 –> 00:26:36,080 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:26:37,060 –> 00:26:45,600 [Mike]
Well, I’d like to talk a little bit more, but let’s make it a little bit more positive. But before we do that, let’s do something even more positive and take a couple moments to thank our amazing sponsors.
00:26:47,040 –> 00:28:01,280 [Jennifer-Lee]
Measure Twice, Cut Once is grateful to our podcast partners, FortisBC, BC Housing, and Trail Appliances. Support from our partners helps us share expert knowledge and resources with families looking to build, design, and renovate the home right for you.
For BC Housing, creating access to housing solutions that meets everybody’s needs is a guiding principle. BC Housing is working with governments, nonprofits, First Nations, and residential construction industry members to create practical solutions to BC housing challenges. To learn more of BC Housing initiatives, programs, and services, go to bchousing.org.
And we all need reliable and efficient equipment for better comfort, health, and safety of our homes. Whether you wanna adopt some energy-saving habits or make a major energy efficiency upgrade, FortisBC can help you save energy. Be sure to go to fortisbc.com, where you can also find amazing tips on low and no-cost ways to save energy, plus great information on what FortisBC is doing on low carbon energy with solutions such as renewable natural gas.
Trail Appliances makes everyday life better with the best selection in Western Canada, hassle-free delivery, and a price match guarantee. As a BC family-owned and operated company for over 50 years, you’ll always get the best deal at Trail Appliances. You’ll love buying appliances as much as you’ll love using it.
00:28:02,220 –> 00:28:08,180 [Mike]
All right, welcome back. Um, we’ve chatted about a bunch of stuff so far, but let’s get to the really…
00:28:09,220 –> 00:28:20,160 [Mike]
it’s not a hard conversation, but it is one that we hope that none of our viewers and listeners have or have to have. But let’s just assume I did my homework. I hired somebody, but now the project is going sideways, regardless of the reason.
00:28:21,240 –> 00:28:27,060 [Mike]
At what point should I contact the Better Business Bureau when things feel like they’re starting to go sideways?
00:28:27,780 –> 00:28:53,680 [Simone]
Well, I would say the very first step, even before you contact us, is you wanna make sure that you have talked to the business, and not just necessarily the person you’re dealing with, but maybe someone senior at that business, so that they understand that there is a legitimate concern that you have that’s not being addressed. At that point, if you’re feeling like you’re still not getting, um, the redress that you need, that the issues are still outstanding, then at that point, we do have a complaint process.
00:28:53,880 –> 00:28:54,040 [Mike]
Okay.
00:28:54,160 –> 00:28:58,080 [Simone]
Um, you can reach out to us. It is a written process, and it does take time.
00:28:58,220 –> 00:28:58,440 [Mike]
Sure.
00:28:58,440 –> 00:29:06,800 [Simone]
So I just wanna make sure that people are aware of that. It’s not the Better Business Bureau comes in with their mighty ax, and before you know it, um, everything is dealt with.
00:29:07,460 –> 00:29:12,060 [Mike]
So what happens when I file a complaint? Like, what is the process
00:29:13,180 –> 00:29:19,240 [Mike]
by which this is resolved, and what does the Better Business Bureau assist with, and what won’t they assist with?
00:29:19,860 –> 00:30:04,340 [Simone]
So our process, uh, as I said, it’s a written process. Um, a copy of the communication that you send us gets sent to the business. Um, if the business is not BBB accredited, we rely on their voluntary cooperation, because the service that we’re offering is to all consumers and all businesses across North America. Um, if they are BBB accredited, then our expectation is that that business is gonna be responsive, that they’re gonna provide a professional response, and that they’re gonna show good faith in their response. We’re gonna send that on to you as the consumer. You’re gonna have an opportunity to look at it, um, and hopefully through this process, we can resolve it. If we can’t, there, there are other alternatives to the BBB. We do offer mediation. We also offer arbitration, which means we’re bringing in expertise to help you move this forward.
00:30:04,900 –> 00:30:08,320 [Mike]
Okay. And if we’ve gotten to the point where we’ve tried all those things-
00:30:08,360 –> 00:30:09,320 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:30:09,320 –> 00:30:14,740 [Mike]
… do we move beyond the Better Business Bureau and get a lawyer involved? Like, how, how, how should we think about this timeline?
00:30:15,200 –> 00:30:42,840 [Simone]
Well, I would say, like, if you’ve used the BBB services and you haven’t gone through arbitration, ’cause, um, arbitration would be legally binding and final, it’s an alternative to court. Court is still an option for you. Um, so at that point, you can look at that. Throughout this whole process, I would encourage consumers and businesses who are dealing with issues to make sure that they’re documenting as they go, uh, that they’re keeping records of everything that, that is going on, um, with the goal of ultimately coming to some sort of conclusion.
00:30:43,340 –> 00:30:57,500 [Jennifer-Lee]
It doesn’t necessarily have to be building-related, but can you tell us when a homeowner, like a positive story that came to you, issued a complaint, and maybe you got great feedback afterwards, like, “Oh, I’m glad that you guys are here and helped me.”
00:30:57,560 –> 00:31:49,300 [Simone]
Yeah. I would say, like, most of the time, it really is that the business didn’t realize how upset the consumer was. And once the consumer had filed the complaint with the BBB, it almost was like, “Okay, I have to deal with this, and I have to deal with it now.” And so it was more a matter of the consumer finally getting the resolution or a response from the business that dealt with the issue. And so, you know, to me, that speaks to the value of being responsive to your customers, um, and making sure that as, as you are dealing with so many different priorities, when there is something that escalates to your attention, that you take the time to deal with it. Um, we, we’ve certainly had unreasonable consumers, and the value of the Better Business Bureau in those types of circumstances is, again, funneling the information to a third party who’s working with you to try to help move this forward.
00:31:50,228 –> 00:31:56,328 [Jennifer-Lee]
And companies also don’t necessarily want anything to go wrong. Like, th- that’s not why they’re in business.
00:31:56,448 –> 00:31:56,588 [Simone]
No.
00:31:56,628 –> 00:32:03,908 [Jennifer-Lee]
And things happen, so you probably have a lot of businesses that are happy too that you, maybe you brought it to their attention because maybe it’s some structure within their company that needs-
00:32:03,908 –> 00:32:04,068 [Simone]
Yeah
00:32:04,068 –> 00:32:10,468 [Jennifer-Lee]
… to change. We always need to, uh, grow, so I’m sure that you probably also have some happy business owners, even though-
00:32:10,548 –> 00:32:10,608 [Simone]
Yeah
00:32:10,608 –> 00:32:12,868 [Jennifer-Lee]
… critiquing is, is sometimes an uncomfortable place.
00:32:13,068 –> 00:32:43,788 [Simone]
Absolutely. I mean, eh, we’re also providing data, right? And so if we start to notice a trend with a company, say suddenly this company had no complaints and then now all of a sudden they’re getting three or four complaints and it all relates to contractual issues where a consumer isn’t clear about the terms of their agreement, um, or they’ve interpreted it differently, that’s feedback we pass back to the business. They can fix their contract and now, you know, m- they’re better positioned for the market. ‘Cause again, nobody wants complaints. You just really want champions.
00:32:44,128 –> 00:32:48,328 [Jennifer-Lee]
Yeah, you’re kinda like Gordon Ramsay when he, like, goes in and, like, kitchen nightmares and, like-
00:32:48,368 –> 00:32:48,448 [Simone]
Yeah
00:32:48,448 –> 00:32:53,368 [Jennifer-Lee]
… gets the businesses all back on a full cylinders and he… Well, you guys don’t yell at them, but he-
00:32:53,408 –> 00:32:53,468 [Simone]
No
00:32:53,468 –> 00:32:57,568 [Jennifer-Lee]
… yells at them. Uh, but, but he does it because he sees the potential-
00:32:57,648 –> 00:32:57,788 [Simone]
Yeah
00:32:57,788 –> 00:32:59,208 [Jennifer-Lee]
… and things happen.
00:32:59,208 –> 00:33:01,028 [Simone]
I hope we don’t yell at anyone, but-
00:33:01,028 –> 00:33:02,208 [Jennifer-Lee]
[laughs]
00:33:02,208 –> 00:33:32,868 [Simone]
… we do… I would, I would say that there are times where we do stir things up. Um, but the other side of that is most… A- again, most of the time it’s, you know, the company hasn’t realized the consumer is so unhappy, or the company feels like they’ve done everything that they should have done and now they’ve reached a standstill. So, great, you’ve got a third party there basically either reading the information and assuring you that you have done everything that we think is reasonable, or, um, encouraging you to address something that may have been missed.
00:33:34,008 –> 00:33:47,648 [Jennifer-Lee]
Okay. You know, sometimes things happen way down the road after the l- r- relationship is well over. Can you give us an advice on any warranties and aftercare? Because I know that’s a whole other ball game.
00:33:47,648 –> 00:34:42,268 [Simone]
I would say the first thing, just as we were talking about, your due diligence when booking, um, and hiring a contractor. I would also say it’s, it actually starts at that step. Um, when you are hiring a contractor, you really need to understand what your warranty is and who your warranty is. And because warranties often limit liabilities that, um, the business you’re hiring, uh, have with you. Um, so I would say the first thing is you really need to understand what is covered. Um, so for example, like, let’s say you hire someone, uh, to do your roof and you’ve got a 25-year warranty with that company. Now, if you sell your house, do you also sell that warranty? Does it go… does it transfer to the new owner? Um, or if someone comes in and does a skylight repair, is your roof warranty still valid? So these are good questions that you need to understand before you even, um, book your contractor.
00:34:42,748 –> 00:34:55,368 [Jennifer-Lee]
And I’m gonna use Mike as an example. [laughs] Um, what happens if somebody comes in, d- does part of Mike’s roof, he doesn’t love all of it, but then Mike’s like, “I can finish the rest of the roof,” which would never happen.
00:34:55,388 –> 00:34:56,328 [Mike]
No, I can’t.
00:34:56,328 –> 00:35:03,008 [Jennifer-Lee]
But you can’t… [laughs] But hypothetical. This is, like, a hypothetical. Um, what happens if he finishes part of the roof himself?
00:35:03,688 –> 00:35:12,568 [Simone]
Well, I think that’s a really good example of when you’re likely vo- voiding your warranty, because nobody’s gonna void s- nobody is gonna warrant someone else’s work.
00:35:12,988 –> 00:35:31,348 [Jennifer-Lee]
Yeah, I didn’t think so, but, uh, I had to ask that question because sometimes, you know, we’ve seen it all the time and, and again, people are like, “Oh, I’ll just finish it myself. It’s not that hard.” But A, it could be dangerous, too, because if you don’t know what you’re doing [laughs] people can fall off roofs and things like that. But also, too, you’re not gonna do it as good as a professional would.
00:35:32,108 –> 00:35:37,748 [Simone]
Well, even if you hired… No offense to you, Mike, but even if you’d hired a professional to come in and do the work- [laughs]
00:35:37,748 –> 00:35:43,728 [Mike]
Don’t worry, I’m not gonna go on my roof. In addition to being horrifically unqualified for it, I’m terrified of heights.
00:35:43,888 –> 00:35:44,148 [Jennifer-Lee]
Yeah.
00:35:44,148 –> 00:35:45,008 [Mike]
It’s not an issue.
00:35:45,328 –> 00:35:47,848 [Jennifer-Lee]
I just thought using Mike would be a great example.
00:35:48,008 –> 00:35:48,088 [Simone]
Yeah.
00:35:48,088 –> 00:35:50,888 [Jennifer-Lee]
You know, relate to the listener. Um,
00:35:52,588 –> 00:35:55,328 [Jennifer-Lee]
anyways, this has been a fantastic conversation, so thank you so much.
00:35:55,328 –> 00:36:15,088 [Mike]
Yeah, it really has been. Yeah, and it’s so much good information and it, it’s, it’s great ’cause every time we have one of these, you know, okay, we talk about we designed this house, we built this house. That’s great. That’s the end result. We’re talking more about the process to manage it and the recourses to us as homeowners. And it’s great because there’s so many different organizations like Haven, like Better Business Bureau, that all have a homeowner’s back.
00:36:15,448 –> 00:36:15,868 [Jennifer-Lee]
Mm-hmm.
00:36:15,868 –> 00:36:21,288 [Mike]
We work together, and that’s the great part. So, uh, Simone, it’s been a really great conversation, and
00:36:22,908 –> 00:36:47,608 [Mike]
just big thanks to you for coming to help us understand how to do our homework, spot the red flags, choose the right professionals with confidence, and have the knowledge that there’s an organization standing behind us when we do make those decisions. And I love you talked about know your project, know your process, know your pro. That’s great information. Uh, speaking of great information, I’d like to give someone a barbecue. Um, [laughs] it’s what we like to do here. Uh, so-
00:36:47,648 –> 00:36:49,028 [Jennifer-Lee]
And you’re a master in that.
00:36:49,048 –> 00:36:49,108 [Mike]
Ab-
00:36:49,108 –> 00:36:51,428 [Jennifer-Lee]
Not, not roofing, but you are a master of the barbecue.
00:36:51,428 –> 00:36:55,628 [Mike]
Uh, yeah. Well, this is something I can help with, but I’m not gonna void anybody’s warranty doing it.
00:36:55,628 –> 00:36:55,748 [Jennifer-Lee]
[laughs]
00:36:55,868 –> 00:37:35,188 [Mike]
Um, but we would love to give you a new Napoleon Rogue Pro 525 gas barbecue valued at almost $1,500, compliments of our friends at FortisBC. What you gotta do is listen to this episode, and if you got this far, you have, congratulations. Like this episode and share this episode, ’cause you got family, you got friends, you got neighbors who need to know this information as well. Once you do that, you have a chance to win it. You just got to go HAVAN.ca/measuretwicecutonce. We recently gave away our barbecue to last season’s winner, and I’ve never seen a bigger smile on a person in my entire life. We’d love the next person to be someone watching this episode right now.
00:37:36,528 –> 00:38:11,648 [Jennifer-Lee]
Yeah, and just a reminder before we close out this episode, again, it, w- we stressed it so much in this conversation, but always hire a professional. Ask all your questions, do your due diligence, do your homework, and you have great z- resources like the BBB and Haven, the Home Builders of Vancouver Association. So very, very important, uh, places to go to. So that’s it for us. And also, remember, if you like this podcast, hit follow, stay connected, and never miss an episode. Thanks to our partners, Trail Appliances, FortisBC, BC Housing, Rami Films, Jpod Creations, and AI Technology and Design.
00:38:11,668 –> 00:38:27,328 [Mike]
And lastly, HAVAN, the Home Builders Association of Vancouver. Uh, I’m a member. Uh, we’re all members here. We’re proudly affiliated with CHBABC and CHBA National. We all work together to support a stronger residential construction industry through education and advocacy, and we’re all glad you’re here.
00:38:28,328 –> 00:38:43,108 [Jennifer-Lee]
Thanks for listening. See you next time on “Measure Twice, Cut Once.” [upbeat music]
