PREFAB-ULOUS!

Extending the life of a traditional prefab Pan-Abode home with factory-built panelized wall systems, Steve Kemp of Kemp Construction believes you can add life to almost any home, noting the ones with quirky designs often yield the best results. Join Mike and Jennifer-Lee as they explore whole-home renovations using state-of-the-art building science.

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Steve Kemp – President, Owner, Kemp Construction

View the pan-abode home addition home being assembled.

Builder: Kemp Construction

Panelized Wall Systems: Bolig Performance Framing

Jennifer-Lee:

Welcome to Measure Twice, Cut Once a podcast from HAVAN, the Homebuilders Association Vancouver.

Mike:

from codes to kitchens,

Jennifer-Lee:

safety to sundecks.

Mike:

We’ll take you behind the walls and all things, home building design, and renovation,

Jennifer-Lee:

And give you the ins and outs from the experts

Mike:

To help you build and renovate the right home for you.

Jennifer-Lee:

in plain language,

Mike:

focused on home building design and renovation.

Jennifer-Lee:

I’m Jennifer Lee Gunson,

Mike:

and I’m Mike Friedman. Now that you’re here, why not hit subscribe? And you’ll never miss another episode.

Jennifer-Lee:

Hey Mike.

Mike:

Hey Jennifer Lee, how the heck are ya?

Jennifer-Lee:

I’m fabulous. I’m happy to back in the studio again. You know, my family background is in home building and renovations. I’ve also worked in broadcasting. So I get really excited about being here and meeting all these interesting builders and designers who are sharing amazing projects. I get to meld both of my worlds together, so I love it.

Mike:

I know I’m absolutely soaking up this season’s information to help me decide whether to tear down and build new or to renovate. There are a lot of different paths and solutions to building the right home.

Jennifer-Lee:

So true. Today’s guest has such an interesting whole home renovation project to share. We have Steve Kemp from Kemp construction, and I was lucky to sit with this guy a few years ago at the HAVAN Awards and he is fun. And Sarah Gallop, it’s one big party at that table. And he’s in the studio today with his client and homeowner who I haven’t been able to party with yet. Michael Elliott, welcome gentlemen. I can’t wait to dive into this podcast of renovating a traditional pre-fab Pana abode home using a state of the art factory built panelized wall system.

Mike:

I’m really excited about this week’s episode as well. It sounds like there’s going to be some time trouble involved in this prefab project. I’ve seen pictures of the house looks amazing and up for some awards as well I hear.

Jennifer-Lee:

Yes, but first it’s always interesting to hear a bit about the people behind the project. So Steve, why don’t you share a little bit about yourself? I love to know the journey. How did you get into construction? Why did you get into construction? My dad always says don’t ever get into construction. So I always like to know other people’s stories

Steve:

It goes way back. But when I was a kid, we had a forest nearby. So I was building rafts and tree forts and got hooked on that. And then out of college, I went out to a world of skiing and then using construction as an employment in the summer and got out of it for many decades. Actually went corporate, when the interest rates went up to 20, 30% and finally came back to it 20 years ago and glad I made the change.

Jennifer-Lee:

And how did you end up getting yourself into dealing with panelized wall system?

Steve:

Well, I was introduced to a very interesting project up in Whistler. I witnessed a house going up in two days and it was a high-performance house, net zero we call it. And the whole house came out of Quebec, because in Quebec that’s a standard way of building as it is in Europe, but it really hadn’t caught fire here in the West. So I met the people that built it, that put it up. And as a builder, I could see how effective it was. And I thought that’s something that we’ve got to do here in the Lower Mainland. So that’s when I started the journey about two and a half years ago.

Jennifer-Lee:

And don’t worry. We’re going to explain to everyone what a panelized wall system is once we get to know these guys a little bit better, further into this episode. So,

Mike:

So Michael, in your case, it was designer Sarah Gallop who featured in Season One Episode 7, talking about pre-construction planning who recommended you to Kemp construction. Michael, did you look at other builders or did you simply work off of Sarah’s advice?

Michael:

We made it work off of Sarah’s advice. Mr. Kemp sent over the project manager, Mike Chase really, really got along with them right off the bat and just decided to run with them. It was a good fit.

Mike:

I’ve worked on some projects with Mike before and he is absolutely awesome. So, Steve, what is your recommendation to people looking to renovate? How do they choose a builder? If they’re not working with a designer already who can recommend someone like you?

Steve:

Well, it’s challenging for customers to find the right builder. And there’s no question that having the designer making recommendations, that’s a big, big boost, but you have to be looking for experience. You have to be looking for a fit. You know, you’re gathering as much information as you possibly can. So their track record, their advertising, the recommendations, the referrals from people, that kind of thing.

Mike:

And if you don’t have a referral from somebody, you can always find a great person at HAVAN.ca as well.

Steve:

You bet. Yeah. Good point.

Jennifer-Lee:

Okay, so we can kind of include everyone in this conversation. Let’s start at the beginning. What is the home that we’re talking about? Why are you here today and tell us how you even started the process of renovating your pan-abode.

Michael:

We have this little log cabin, it’s a little pan-abode, prefabbed house built in the eighties. It’s 1200 square feet. And, uh, me and the wife, we started having kids. So we had to renovate and looking around the neighborhood, it was just a better idea for us to stay in our location, do the renovation than it was to move sideways into another place.

Jennifer-Lee:

And what is a pan-abode? I know what one is. My mom talks about all the time. She used to live in one, but other people might be like, what are they talking about?

Michael:

It is a small prefab log cabin, very popular in cottage countries and places like that.

Steve:

Yeah, it’s engineered logs. So the logs get processed in a factory and pan-abode would have standard designs. So if you’re wanting a cottage, that’s economical that that’s quite likely owner built, it’s a great way to go. And, you know, in Boundary Bay, it was a summer community primarily. So people weren’t too interested in year-round insulation, but in fact, logs are a good insulator. So it’s more the fact that you’ve got all these joints and you know, old windows that came with a package. This is what takes off the levels out some of the performance aspect of it.

Jennifer-Lee:

It is so interesting to me, because we always talk about high-performance homes and eco-friendly homes. And, you know, we had a lot of these structures in place like pan-abodes that seem a little bit more eco-friendly to begin with because you don’t have all the dry wall and other things that aren’t really great for the earth.

Steve:

It’s actually getting new interests so if you start talking to the passive house gurus, solid wood buildings are actually coming back into vogue because it’s a replenishable resource. It’s the, you know, the GWP, the earth warming gases, and all these things start to make a wood built structures more attractive. But, part of the issue is that the performance has been the windows, the doors, the insulation foundation, all of these other things. So, you can actually take something like a pan-abode and make it a higher performing building by just making sure all these other parts of the house are done properly. They’re quite interesting. I built one back in the seventies and 76 in Jasper and quite an interesting exercise. It was a pounding every log with a sledge hammer, and then you’ve got these big through bolts and you got to screw them down and you have to leave two inches above the doors and the window because of the settling factor. So it was a pretty unique process, but it went up quickly and it was very affordable. So it was a good choice for the time.

Mike:

Steve economics obviously play into the decision making process, but beyond simply the cost of it, what are some of the key considerations and factors that we would look at if we’re deciding to build a whole home, a new tearing down our old home, or do we want to renovate our existing home? What are some of the things that you would look at and advise me of in regards to my home or Michael’s home to help us make the right decision?

Steve:

Well, there’s a number of things that come into play. One example would be where the existing house is in terms of its proximity to let’s say, a stream or other situations. Back in the seventies or eighties codes and the setback restrictions were different than they are now. So, if you like where your house is situated on a lot, but you want new, then basically you’re going to do a complete total reno. So, where the house is situated now is one of the factors. Total cost is another. If you look at doing a new and remodeling, it is a lesser cost than going to a brand new custom home. It takes less time generally to get it up and permitted. The other thing, when you’re doing that kind of work, especially with Michael’s place, he had a big lot. So that really enabled a lot more creativity in terms of the final product. You really have to look at all aspects to see at the end of the day, what’s going to be your best bet. So it’s not just one thing in general, but it’s a, quite a number of things. There are some people that want a new house period. End of story. They’re going to go straight to that path, regardless of what’s on the lot right now.

Jennifer-Lee:

When you have an existing structure, like the pan-abode and you want to add onto it, like I’ve seen the photos and you gotta check it out. Cause it’s gorgeous. And it’s really neat to see that you have this existing structure with this new structure combined to make one house. I know things are different depending on what municipality or is it harder to like go to a city and be like, hey, we have this existing structure, but we want to add on this amount of square footage, there’s a lot of different permits and things that you need like that, or a lot of hoops to go through. Is it a really hard process?

Steve:

It can be. Now you’re not going to get too many pan-abodes around town because it’s mostly something out in the country or suburbs. So, the first step is you go to city hall and say, this is my house. Could you pull it up on your map? And then this is what we’re interested in doing. Is it possible to do what we want on this lot? That’s the first thing we tell somebody. They want to add X number of feet. Well go to city hall and let them know what you’re intending on doing. And they’ll say whether or not this lot can actually accommodate the size of building that you want. So that’s number one. And then if they say, yeah, you can do that, then you can start getting down to the brass tacks on how to go about doing it. But if you’re in a city a lot, it’s pretty restrictive. And most of the homes are already built out to maximum width. So, you know, you can go back, you can go forward, really depends on the house. But before you get too far into it, you want to make sure that the city is going to be on-side and it fits the new regulation.

Mike:

We’re actually up against that right now, we can only add up to 60% of our current square footage. So it’s not like I’m going to get a 6,000 square foot house out of my existing house. So because of our lot size, we are a candidate to tear down and build, but you’re dealing with a different lot size where you are Michael, and it is totally different municipality as well. So, you do want to work with a builder who’s licensed where you live, always because they know their bylaws better than anybody else. And they can pretty quickly tell you what you can and can’t do.

Steve:

And just how far you can go with the build. I mean, Mike and I were just talking about this, by the way, I’m, Mike’s neighbor, I just lived down the street, and there’s another pan-abode in our neighborhood that I just looked at a few weeks ago and it’s basically, they took a bungalow and they stuck a pan-abode on top. That’s how it looks, but there’s no room to go left or right. They can go a little bit behind. So the floor plan can’t change a whole bunch. So it’s got some natural restrictions to it where Mike’s place you could go left, you could go right. There was room to play with. So you could really get off the original footprint. So like we took the kitchen, we moved it into the new area. The living room was part of the old area, part of the new area, the bathroom upstairs. I don’t think there was a bathroom there before it was there, but it all worked with the plumbing. So that’s the other thing too, is like, you’ve got somebody like Sarah Gallop that really knows her way around this stuff. So it was, how do we take this and put it in the way that’s actually buildable and doable. So that really comes down to the skill of the designer.

Jennifer-Lee:

Like you said, you need a great designer, which it sounds like you did on this project. And that goes back to you Mike, I was talking to you a little bit before, and you said your wife had a lot of the design ideas and she was able to work with Sarah to achieve her goals. Can you tell us a little bit about that process?

Michael:

Yeah, like Steve was saying, we went to the city first, to find out where we were going to be able to put an addition onto the house and kind of mapped it out. And then we started looking at a lot of different photos online and a lot of different pictures. And Vicky came up basically with that look of having that on the left-hand side, there, the kind of tower going up with the white baton and basically gave those ideas to Sarah and she brought it all together and made it happen.

Jennifer-Lee:

Do you and your wife have a similar design aesthetic and similar design ideas because that’s something that we talk to Sarah Gallop about in our last podcast is working with couples because sometimes you all have different ideas and trying to meld those into one, to make both parties happy.

Michael:

Happy wife, happy life.

Jennifer-Lee:

So you got no decision in the home design, basically

Michael:

A little bit, a little bit. Definitely, but her ideas are just so good and she definitely had a flare for it, all the credit to, her and to Sarah.

Steve:

Yeah, that raises a really interesting point. So we talked about going to city hall in terms of what can you do out of this property, but, you know, before we even get to the designer, we have a nice chat with the people that have called us in to have a talk about what they want to do. And, and I said, look, to save yourself some time and a lot of effort and make sure you’re on the same page in terms of what you want to see at the end of the day. So I’ve told people, look, walk around the neighborhood and don’t analyze the place. Just if you both like it, take a picture and then go to the designer and say, we both like it. And don’t try to determine whether it’s the balcony or the feet, you know, the wood trim or any of that sort of thing. And then keep going around and doing that. And the designer will understand why you both like it because there’ll be looking at it in a different way. So get on the same page. And, you know, we do go through some interesting experiences talking to couples. And it’s interesting that in some cases it’s like, they’ve never talked about this before. You know, one’s very traditional and the other one is very modern. It’s like, they’re both understanding that for the first time in the interview.

Mike:

I think a renovation is as a metaphor for life, if there’s balance and clear communication and everybody’s on the same page, everything goes well. Steve, I want to talk a little about this house and I’m just fascinated to learn some more details. So what we had is a combination of a pan-abode home, which you talked about earlier and panelized wall systems. So it’s two prevailing sets of logic and design. Can you talk to us a little about these panelized wall systems, because that is a really big emerging thing in construction and it’s old and new meeting together, and I’d love to learn a little bit more about them and how they work versus conventional building.

Steve:

Well, the concept of panelizing has been, actually has been around for a long, long time. Quebec, for example, is way ahead of the curve because they unionized carpenters and builders looked for a better, more efficient way of doing things. If you’re in Europe, let’s say Switzerland, I just heard back from a builder. He was there. 90% of all your construction is panelized. So what that means is that you’re taking any design. It’s not limited to standard or basic designs – take any design. And the new software that we have is quite interesting. So we take the architectural software, we take the structural, we put them together and then we create a wall by wall detail of that house. Then you’re building it in a factory, in a controlled condition. The wood’s coming into that factory, all dried and wrapped, and then it’s getting covered. And then it goes to the site all dried and covered. And then your roof is on, in a matter of a week or less, or a little bit more sometimes. So the house stays dry and it’s easier doing all the small details when it’s in a factory, when you’ve got a roof overhead, you’re not battling the rain. You’ve got people that are trained to do the job. So controlling the quality. And the big thing for our client is the house is basically going up very, very quickly. So in Mike’s case, we had two floors on one side and the second floor and near the site, it all went up in one day, that’s over a thousand square feet. The other thing too, is that the emergence of the new step code or the higher energy standards are demanding more insulation and detailing in a wall. So that’s another skill set that has to be learned, which can be difficult with people that are accustomed to doing it a certain way, but it’s standard process within a factory.

Jennifer-Lee:

And it’s more eco-friendly. When I was reading up about panelized walls and they actually said it’s a twenty-five percent waste reduction when you’re using panelized walls.

Steve:

Yeah. Cause you’re, you’ve got software that actually kicks out the size and material you need to build that wall. So it’s very, very automated. And you know, when you’re in a factory, you can also control your offcuts, which is something that happens.

Jennifer-Lee:

What’s an offcut?

Steve:

An offcut is where you do have to cut this material to fit the wall. And so that gets cut and it goes into the bin, it goes straight to the right place. When you’re on a job site, those off cuts get mixed up with this, that, and the other thing. And so now you have a very mixed load of debris. So from the job site, the amount of material or waste factor is almost cut in half, certainly in the, in the framing stage. So yeah, there’s all these other sort of other indirect benefits from working that way.

Mike:

Steve, speaking of cutting in half, you spoke about putting these panelized walls up in one to two days. Help people listening, understand if we were going with the construction methodology that was a little bit more traditional, how long would it take to get to where you got to in two days?

Steve:

Well, in Mike’s case probably three weeks or so. If you’re talking a new home could be a savings of one month to three months. It really depends what the weather conditions are, the experience of the crew, how many workers you have on the site. So it helps to give you a more exact information to work with because we can control the pricing better and we can control the timeframe better.

Mike:

Well, I think the other thing is whether it’s three weeks to put it to it together, conventionally or three months, that’s three weeks or three months of that house collecting rain because it rains here and just not being locked up and not being ready to go. So there are so many advantages over just time, even.

Steve:

Yeah, we are you are knocking down the total build time. And depending on the job you can save one month, you can save three months. So, you know, some of these new builds are going 12, 14, 18 months. So, you know, saving a month or two or three means your financing costs are less. If you’re renting in the meantime, then of course your rental period is going to be less.

Mike:

Putting it in practical terms, if you’re waiting a period of time for a permit, and then you’re waiting a period of time for construction, it could be between when you pull the trigger and you get to move in up to two years before you move into your new home. So anything that we can do to reduce that amount of time is significant because hey, time is money.

Steve:

For sure. Yeah.

Jennifer-Lee:

It’s like playing with Lego.

Michael:

It was amazing watching the house actually come up in about an eight hour period. I think it was 10 hours,

Steve:

Something like that. Yeah.

Michael:

From the morning to the nighttime, all of a sudden there, you could see, you know, what the finished house was actually going to really look like. You know, because again, it’s not just a skeleton, it’s the siding and the outside insulation, everything too.

Steve:

Yeah, as Mike is saying that it’s more than just the wood, the framing, the sheathing, there’s the exterior installation. There’s the house wrap, the rain screen. Some of these things take a long time to get on the building if it’s done onsite. So the walls actually come that way. So there’s a lot of things we can do in the factory. So while the foundation is getting built, we’re building the walls in a factory. And so shortly after the foundation is ready, the truck comes, the crane comes and then the crew shows up and then way we go. So there’s a lot more front end work that we work with the builder and work them through the process. But in terms of what the timeframe is and the technical, the technical aspects on the site, it’s all done, architects and engineers they like it too, because when we’re doing the wall panel design for factory building, we’re uncovering things that might not show up until you’re halfway through the framing. Especially as the houses get a little bit more unique. Back in the day when everything was a bungalow, basically, then it was pretty straight forward. But now you see what’s going on it’s just some incredible designs. And these are one off designs in many cases. So there’s things that are discovered that, hey, this might not work or that might not be in the right place. And next thing you know, you’re calling the engineer, you’re calling the architect and you’re calling them that day and say, you got to get this fixed because I can’t go any further than that. So these are issues that are resolved in the planning stage when you’re doing it.

Jennifer-Lee:

I was just thinking about that, actually, when you were talking, I was like, do you need an architect? Of course you do. But you know, a lot of these prefab homes from back then our little square box, like you said, so you don’t have to compromise your design aesthetic is what you’re saying with this new type of system.

Steve:

Yeah. You don’t have to dumb down the house to do panelizing. In fact, we can do, we did one wall, that’s got 22 custom cuts to it. So no end to the amount of detail we can do. Whatever the structural requirement is, it gets built into the wall. We solve all those problems. And, so on. So now ironically with the new passive house drive is that helps the simplification now is, is coming back in terms of a functional benefit. So this is where as a builder, we play with all the other things that make a house more efficient to be able to keep you in a conventional, in a nice house, while at the same time, getting the performance benefit. A basic rectangular houses as a lot easier to, to heat and to maintain than it is than if the complicated ones with a lot of features to it.

Mike:

In terms of heating and cooling a house, in a flat versus a conventional roof, is there a difference between the two types of roofing?

Steve:

Well, there is. If you’ve got let’s say a flat slope roof, you generally have a big bank of windows going from floor to ceiling, for example. So the roof in itself is not the challenge per se. It’s the fact that that style of home generally comes with a big wall of window. And so that’s where your challenge is. You’re, you’re having to build the rest of the house to compensate for all of this glass. But again, if you blow your numbers because of this big bank of window here, you can make up for it by going overboard in terms of your insulation and the foundation, under your slab with the reduction of windows in other locations. So this is where we work with the, what they call the compliance report. The builders, working with the energy advisor to come up with that right combination to give us that performance level.

Jennifer-Lee:

So like amazed by all of this. So as I process all this information, Steve and Michael, thank you. That’s so interesting to hear about this project, taking an older prefab home and extending it using state of the art building science solutions. And I just want to take a deep dive into the project and whole home renovation in general and advantages of using panelized wall systems. But first, let’s take a quick break to thank our podcast sponsor. So hang in and we’ll be back in 30 seconds.

Mike:

Measure Twice, Cut Once is grateful for the support from our podcast partners, BC Housing BC Hydro and FortisBC. Their help helps us share expert knowledge and resources like you’re hearing today from Steve and Michael to help build and design and renovate the right home for you.

Jennifer-Lee:

And speaking of resources, the BC Energy Step Code Program is provincial standard that is moving the entire home building industry forward to build homes to better energy efficiency standards, which means better comfort, health, and safety. Be sure to check out www.betterhomesbc.ca where you’ll find a variety of rebates for construction materials, home, energy evaluations, plus mortgage and tax refunds.

Mike:

I’m excited to hear about this one. There are also rebates and renovations too. Just click on the rebate search tool button on the homepage of betterhomesbc.ca to find cost saving resources for your next project, or talk with your licensed builder or professional contractor. They’ll help guide you. Now. Let’s get back to Steve and Michael.

Jennifer-Lee:

Okay. In past episode with Level One Construction, we talked to Alex about renovations and he said, if there are good bones, a renovation is possible and they took a Vancouver special home and made it more special and amazing. Steve looking at the pan-abode home, what were your thoughts when Michael and Sarah approached you? Were you like, hmm, that’s exciting. Or no, this is going to be hard!

Steve:

Yeah. A bit of both. You know, having built one and knowing how it’s put together and clamping down the amount of settling and all of that. So it was very interesting. It was challenging. And, a lot of things, you know, bore out in terms what actually came about. So for example, the walls are not necessarily vertical. They were bulging out in places and stuff, but it’s all manageable stuff. We can correct a lot of that stuff. So the good bones part is true. It terms if the bones are great, it’s an easier job of it. But if, if they’re not great, you can actually get in there and start fixing up a lot of stuff. The challenge with the pan-abode and a new build is tying them together. So we have to work with the engineer to say, okay, well, how are we going to, if we’re taking this part of the wall out, then that’s a structural part, how are we going to put back the structure or the strengths of the wall? So you have to work with the engineer. He’s got to give you some direction. You make suggestions yourself, and then putting a new part of the building on that’s, you know, plumb level square and all of that good stuff to a house that’s settled for many, many years. That’s where the challenge and the creative part really comes in.

Mike:

I like to talk to you a little bit about cost and economics, because that factors massively into a decision from a homeowner’s perspective. I know cost per foot is not always easy to pin down, and there’s a lot of variables, but can you give me some examples of how you would estimate a job when you’re walking into a project like this?

Steve:

Well, it’s actually, that’s one of the things we talk about in the initial conversation with the client is that if they’re looking at a new house, for example, you could be anywhere in that $250K to $275K to the low three hundreds per square foot. And it’s a very general number, but, and at the end of the day, it may not bear out to be exactly that, but it is helping to put people in the right frame of mind. If you’re doing a straight renovation, taking the existing space, moving around, doing stuff, you’re going to be in the lower twos. If you’re doing a combination like in Mike’s situation, new and old together, then you’re going to be in the mid twos generally speaking. It’s a very general number. Are you putting in a hundred dollar toilet or are you putting in a $600 toilet? All of these little decisions are going to make a difference at the end of the day in terms of your total cost. But what it does do is it helps people get a true reality of where things could go and they need to be prepared for that.

Mike:

Can you just clarify one thing. You gave us general cost for renovations and for new. For renovations, that’s not just the cost of the addition, right? You have to factor in the full square footage of the finished product, just so people can budget accordingly, correct?

Steve:

Correct? Yeah. You take the full square footage because like Mike’s case, for example the pan-abode was already there. The foundation was there, the walls were there and the roof was there. So even though a space is not getting a lot of work done to it necessarily, it is still an averaging that you’re talking about overall. And it’s sometimes people think, okay, well, I don’t touch that part. Then we’re not doing that. We’re doing this. And so, you know, what happens is that all of a sudden that bedroom, they didn’t want to touch, starts coming into play. They see everything else coming together nicely. And next thing you know… so I tell people like, shut the door and keep it shut, because what happens if you’re putting nice baseboards over here and window trim over here, and this has got the old stuff, you’ll see that right away. You’re, you know, you don’t have that congruence. So hey, why don’t we just do the baseboards and the trim and, oh, well, I guess we’re going to paint it now. And so that’s always the issue. And so if there’s some real budget challenges, then we are going to try to put the brakes on because we know that there is that natural gravitational force that you’re always working with. So if we see a very hard ceiling on the budget, then we have to be very careful about letting them get carried away and keeping it in check.

Jennifer-Lee:

Budget it is always tough to talk to with a client because a lot of the things they can’t physically see a lot of the times, so they’re like, why am I paying for this? So with the panelized wall system where he talked about the benefits of it, and then it’s more eco-friendly and then it’s faster building process, but what is the cost? Is the cost still as high as compared to like building, like I read an article, they call it stick building. I think at the three little pigs stick building versus panelized walls. Yeah. What is the type of cost of that? Like, do you save because there’s less labor of people, less people on the job site?

Steve:

It’s about the same. So I don’t think you do panelizing because it’s a huge cost saving. Not every company has the same luck in terms of the framing cost, for example. So one of the things that builders experience is that they’re given a quote for doing the framing. And next thing I know it’s nowhere near that at the end of the day, for this reason or that reason. So when you’re doing panelizing, there is a set cost for the panels. And then we’re at the point now where we’re going to be giving a set timeframe at a cost for the install. So there’s price assurity for the builder, because that’s when you’re the general contractor you’re representing the customer. And when you start getting these bills that are different than what the quote was, you’re in a difficult spot. So there is the price assurance. Now here’s another issue is that the new walls we’re doing are more involved. You’ve got insulation on them in these other things. So when you have to compare apples to apples, but generally speaking it’s about the same in terms of the hard costs.

Mike:

I would love to talk to you a little bit about energy benefits, because it’s not just the cost of doing this type of project. It’s some of the benefits that that level of investment will provide for you. Can you help us understand how energy efficiency works into the mix when you’re using pre-built walls?

Steve:

What we’re doing in terms of energy efficiency, generally speaking, is we’re reducing the amount of heating and cooling costs. We’re lowering the energy demand. And so by doing that, you’re decreasing your heating costs. You’re also now getting into a different category of mechanicals to provide that heat and cooling. Well, now the technologies are small, very compact, and it’s changed the whole situation where you don’t worry about heating a house anymore. You can almost heat the house off of just the people and light bulbs and so forth. We’re now into a cooling challenge. So that’s where this whole thing is changing. It could be a whole show in itself, but this is the new frontier in terms of getting it right when we get into these higher efficiency. But generally speaking, reduce the amount of heating, cooling you need by good design and insulation.

Jennifer-Lee:

Keeping on with the design. Michael, we talked about working with Sarah and how you were able to create a great home together with your wife, but what is the difference? Because obviously you were in a smaller home for a while, and then now you’ve got this much larger home with all these different features. So can you tell us the difference between living in just your regular pan-abode to your super cool upgraded pan-abode?

Michael:

Don’t see the kids as much. They got each got their own room upstairs now, and they each have a nice play area upstairs.

Jennifer-Lee:

And what is the playroom look like? Describe it to me. I want to know.

Michael:

The playroom upstairs is actually the original. So the original size of the second floor. So that would have been the master bedroom, the kid’s bedroom and the landing for the staircase. And that’s just a big area for the kids to do their homework. We have a TV up there and their PlayStation and pullout couch.

Jennifer-Lee:

And can you tell us a little bit of the comfort level that you have now from the existing pan-abode to your new state of the art home?

Michael:

The house, the home is a lot warmer. The other houses, they are drafty, especially in the wind. Boundary Bay is quite windy.

Jennifer-Lee:

It’s warmer which is great. I’m always cold. So that’s perfect. What are some other features or maybe even Steve, what are some things that you put into make Michael’s life more comfortable and his wife happy?

Steve:

Well, the open concept is great because you can be in the kitchen and you can watch the kids at the same time. If they’re downstairs. From an energy point of view, we reinstated a lot of the original house. We sealed up a lot of cracks, that kind of thing. So, you know, drafts make a house more uncomfortable and more costly. So those that was big. Part of it is keeping an eye on where we could make big improvements in the existing structure.

Jennifer-Lee:

Steven, Michael, this episode has been very informative. Learning about new ways to bring new life into an older home with advanced building science is truly amazing. I have a new found love now for pan-abode.

Mike:

I’ve always loved pan-abodes for what it’s worth. Today we’ve learned so much. And I love when we have these kinds of conversations, because there’s so much to talk about. There is a lot of cost savings to be realized by renovating an older home versus tearing down a new home. There are building science solutions available, and it’s important to find the right local builder with experience in the knowledge to best bring your project to life.

Jennifer-Lee:

And have a great interior designer.

Mike:

Absolutely. Before we go, Steve and Michael, we’d like you to leave our listeners with one last piece of advice, whatever it is so that everyone has something great to take away from our time together.

Michael:

If you like where you’re living and you like your house, try to find a way to do the renovation. And it’s going to stay with your community and stay with your friends.

Steve:

Try to get one person being the driver in terms of the site direction. And also the day-to-day decision-making because both have to be factored into the work.

Jennifer-Lee:

And if people want to have your advice further and want to learn more about renovating older homes, where can they contact you Steve?

Steve:

Well, they can call Kemp Construction. They can go on the website and find contact information. So they can also there’s info@kempconstruction.ca and we’ll come over and do a complimentary visit, and see what their goals are. Look at what they’re starting with. See if there’s a clean, easy path to their objective. That’d be a good start.

Mike:

I’m learning so much about planning for my home project. Understanding the value to be found in our existing homes and the possibilities through good design and an experienced knowledgeable builder and designer. I’m thinking my home might be an award-winning project one day soon too.

Jennifer-Lee:

With a good designer, proper planning and a knowledgeable builder, I believe you can get there. Thank you for joining us today. We look forward to talking to you next week when we meet with Nick Bray Architecture who built a five bedroom, five bathroom, passive home on a 25 foot wide peat bog in Vancouver. This has been Measure Twice, Cut Once the podcast from HAVAN, the Homebuilders Association Vancouver, thanks for joining us today

Mike:

For notes and links to everything mentioned on today’s episode, go to havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce.

Jennifer-Lee:

Follow us and review us to help empower homeowners like yourself to make the right decision the first time.

Mike:

Until next time. This is Mike Freedman.

Jennifer-Lee:

I’m Jennifer Lee reminding you to measure twice.

Mike:

and cut once.