GOOD BONES

Humble post-war bungalows, Vancouver specials, aging arts and crafts homes. Ready to teardown? Not so fast says Alex Dumitru of Level One Construction, who prefers to breathe new life into a home built with character and good bones. Listen in as Alex and Cara Hansen from Triple Dot Design Studio share their inspiring Vancouver Special renovation story as featured in Western Living Magazine.

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Cara Hansen is a Vancouver-based interior designer and the founder of the multiple award winning Triple Dot Design Studio.

Her interest and experience in design goes back to childhood and her family’s construction business. She was exposed to the intricacies of the business from a very early age, witnessing projects from breaking ground to finished product countless times. This process gave her the time to imagine and plot what these spaces could become, ask questions, and get her hands dirty. She draws on that knowledge and experience to this day and backs it up with a Bachelor’s degree from CIDA accredited Vancouver Island University.

Cara’s personal style combines the practicality of Scandinavian design and the beauty of Canada’s West Coast with the value of excellent craftsmanship and timeless design choices. By distilling those concepts to their fundamentals, Cara founded Triple Dot on the three inter-twining principles of functionality, aesthetic, and longevity. It is our belief that when these elements are perfectly aligned they provide the cornerstones of solid, beautiful designs.

Alex Dumitru, Level One Construction

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Jennifer-Lee:

Welcome to Measure Twice, Cut Once a podcast from HAVAN, the Homebuilders Association Vancouver.

Mike:

from codes to kitchens,

Jennifer-Lee:

safety, to sundeck

Mike:

We’ll take you behind the walls in all things, home, building design and renovation,

Jennifer-Lee:

And give you the ins and outs from the experts.

Mike:

to help you build a renovate the right home for you.

Jennifer-Lee:

in plain language,

Jennifer-Lee:

Focused on home building design and renovation.

Jennifer-Lee:

I’m Jennifer-Lee Gunson.

Mike:

and I, Mike Freedman. Now that you’re here, why not hit subscribe? And you’ll never miss another episode.

Jennifer-Lee:

Hey Mike,

Mike:

Hey Jennifer Lee, how you doing? I’m great.

Jennifer-Lee:

Last week’s podcast with Todd from Best Builders and his client Michelle, and how she was sharing their story of going to Todd to get a home, to build for her son who has a disability and is in a wheelchair – I just felt that that story was just so inspiring and I’m excited to interview more people.

Mike:

It really was. Hearing Michelle’s story and how Todd worked with her and other industry specialists to source design and build solutions to provide her son with a home capable of letting him live as unlimited a lifestyle as possible. It’s amazing to know there are a lot of resources out there and how technology and the right professionals can help overcome any current or possibly future challenges in the home, which includes aging in place.

Jennifer-Lee:

Yeah, it’s always about making a plan and making a house that works for you and your family’s needs, knowing how to increase comfort, safety and efficiencies, which is important when you start to build design or renovate your home.

Mike:

Yes. And talking about renovations, when looking at older homes, you need to know if a house has good bones behind the walls to ensure if what the work you’re going to do is possible. And as you know, I’m looking to possibly renovate my home or tear it down and build a new one. And we’re still trying to decide. So I have a lot of questions to ask. So let’s introduce our guests.

Jennifer-Lee:

We are very fortunate to have Alex from Level One Construction and Cara from Triple Dot Design in the studio today for episode on character home renovations. Welcome guys.

Alex:

Hey.

Cara:

Hey.

Jennifer-Lee:

Tell us a little bit, Alex, we’ll get right down to it because I want to know more about Level One Contracting.

Alex:

Yeah. We’re a local construction company in Vancouver that specializes in all renovation projects, condos houses. Randy, the owner of the company had started the company about 15 years ago and sort of doing small maintenance projects and condo stuff. But now we’ve, you know, branched onto a specializing into larger home renovation projects.

Jennifer-Lee:

And what is your role at the company?

Alex:

I’m the operations manager. So I’m responsible for the day-to-day operations of the business.

Cara:

Another key player, of course, it’s the interior designer and we’ve got Cara, how are you today?

Jennifer-Lee:

I’m good. How are you doing?

Jennifer-Lee:

Can you tell us a little bit about Triple Dot Design and how it all started?

Cara:

Yeah, so I actually grew up in construction, which kind of sparked my interest in interior design. And after several years in industry, my kind of path was being like, no, you need to start your own company. So I did that and I’ve never looked back since.

Jennifer-Lee:

And what are some of your favorite things design? Are you more a traditional designer or do you like more modern or a little bit of mix of both?

Cara:

I’m a little bit of a chameleon because the project really depends on who the client is because first and foremost, it needs to reflect who they are as person. And I’m just there to guide them to make smart decisions and with their home and to guide them, what’s worth the investment. So if you’re asking my personal style, I would say a little bit more transitional, but design everything.

Jennifer-Lee:

And what is transitional for someone that might not understand in the world of construction?

Cara:

So transitional design is a little bit of traditional and a little bit of modern, so it’s kind of melding them both together. So think of like modern farmhouse has a little bit of transitional elements. So you have like a shaker panel or has some more details, but you’re not so traditional, like an old world European place.

Jennifer-Lee:

So, you’re kind of in the middle between like traditional and a bit of modern kind of.

Cara:

Yeah, exactly.

Jennifer-Lee:

I like that. And we touch a little bit about like what type of style you like, but what is your design philosophy?

Cara:

When I founded Triple Dot Design Studio, I founded it on three design philosophies. And that’s what my logo is like the Venn diagram. So you have functionality, longevity and aesthetics because you need your design to be functional. It needs to work for the human and how you live in that space. It needs to have longevity. You don’t want to be designing just for today. You want it to age gracefully. And aesthetically, it needs to look beautiful because that’s what people are hiring a designer for first and foremost.

Mike:

Let’s talk a little about housing styles in Vancouver, Vancouver, special arts and crafts, postwar bungalow, a classic early eighties house like mine, and often viewed as outdated and not worth renovating. But these homes have such great personalities and character that are often worth preserving. Alex, can you tell us a little about the Vancouver special project that has been nominated for a Georgie Award and is in for a HAVAN award as well?

Alex:

So the Vancouver special project was a, just a standard 1970s house that Polly had purchased. You know, she, she came to me with a list of dreams and list of ideas. She basically wanted to do the entire house, the exterior, the interior, you know, both floors. But she ended up doing, based on her, what her budget would allow just doing the main floor, which was opening up the kitchen and living space by tearing down a few walls, doing new floor, new paint and renovating the bathroom upstairs. Also as part of that project, you know, we renovated the foyer and kind of the railing area and the stairs going up to the main floor. But yeah, that was the, a Vancouver special project.

Jennifer-Lee:

A little bit more about a Vancouver special when I was Googling it. And I’m aware because I grew up in Vancouver, but a lot of articles were titled like Vancouver special is not a monster because as we know that iconic look, when you’re going down the street, you’re like, ooh, that’s an interesting looking home. And there’s like 12 of them in a row. And you’re like, oh, okay. So can you tell us a little bit more about the concept of a Vancouver special?

Alex:

I would say it’s a, you know, it’s a two story house. They all look very similar, but it’s standard like a thousand up thousand down slab on grade house. But yeah, that would be kind of my explanation for a Vancouver special. I think if you’ve lived in Vancouver, you kind of know it when you see it,

Cara:

The history on it is, they were trying to maximize on their floor space on a lot. So you actually would never be allowed to build a house that big and they all have like kind of two steps down to the front door. You have a foyer, usually a curved staircase up and all your living spaces upstairs. So you have your bedrooms usually have a master bedroom in the bath with a half bath and two spare bedrooms with a full bath. And then this little closed off kitchen and your living space. And then you have like this little half deck at the front. And so they all have a very similar aesthetic from the front. And that’s why it’s called the Vancouver special because they were just built in masses because they were so affordable and big.

Jennifer-Lee:

And a lot of them had the capability for a basement. Right? Like a lot of them had unfinished basements in them as well.

Cara:

Yeah. A lot of them do have basement suites or in-law suites or just rec room. So there’s a whole other, like Alex said a thousand square feet on that main floor or either income suites or just more livable space.

Alex:

Yeah. You either take some of that space for yourself or, you know yeah. You rent out a portion of it to somebody else.

Jennifer-Lee:

And in one of our earlier episodes in season two, we were talking about, um, maximizing that space and having more family members move in with you. So the Vancouver specials, if you have one, renovating it to work for you and adding more people, if there’s a suite in the bottom or whatever, it gives you that chance to have more communal living and give more people, maybe a chance to live somewhere at an affordable price.

Cara:

Yeah. You do see a lot of them as multi-generational living homes because there are kitchens in that main floor. So you see a lot of parents giving the house to the kids and the kids living upstairs and then the parents relocating to the basement. But which is great for Vancouver because it’s so expensive. And this is how a lot of people can afford a house is multi-generational living.

Mike:

I think one of the other things about the Vancouver special is that, you know, you can’t build a new house that size. And so we’re paying an awful lot in Vancouver for lots. And if you’re looking to maximize your investment and get the biggest possible home for you and your family, you may have to look at renovating. And that’s where having these types of conversations come in at the beginning. So you have that knowledge of what you can do and why it might be good to go in one direction or the other. And that’s what people like yourselves do is help folks out there who don’t know, navigate all these difficult questions that have very, very vast implications, whether you get it right or wrong.

Alex:

Yeah, for sure. And I even touching on the Vancouver special, you know, most of the time on those Vancouver specials, you have the large deck at the back, you know, nowadays, if you were to put that in, it would have to be a lot smaller. So I think that just goes to the fact of whether you, you know, tear down or, you know, renovate what’s there. And that’s one of the benefits you have with the Vancouver special is, you know, you get grandfathered bylaws and that sort of thing.

Jennifer-Lee:

It’s so funny to me because we think, Oh, it’s such a large deck, but now during COVID, everybody wants a large deck because that’s the only way we can socialize. So decks are making a comeback for sure. And you know, that brings to the next thing is the fact that there’s a lot of older homes in Vancouver that have been redone. And like, I don’t know if somebody saw the article the other week, but it’s on the iconic Hobbit House on King Edward. Yeah. And it looks gorgeous. It’s that it’s all modern. They kept the exterior and it looks amazing. It’s similar to what you guys did in your Vancouver special. And that’s what I thought of when I was looking, I was like, Oh wow. It’s like all these cool homes that are now like being from like the ugly duckling to like the swan.

Mike:

Well, it’s kind of neat too, because we’re able to repurpose these homes and use them. And, you know, we are talking not just in the city of Vancouver, but everywhere about sustainability in every facet of industry. And so not having to tear down a home, not having to send all those materials to the landfill allows you to get a lease of another 50 plus years on that home. That’s the ultimate and sustainability is not tearing down a home.

Jennifer-Lee:

On that point. I know it’s hard to, unless you’re looking at the host, but like, what would you suggest? Like, cause there are some houses let’s be honest that especially in Vancouver have been left for years and years and years and they’re boarded up and there might not be any way to salvage them. When somebody has a home like that, is it really just important to bring a builder on and be like, Hey, is this salvageable or not? Because unfortunately some of the homes aren’t.

Alex:

Yeah, for sure. I think you can maybe tell by they seeing it firsthand, but I would say just, you know, last time maybe renovation was done. You know, what the size of the house is, how big is the lot and what the, you know, what the plans are for the house, whether it suits your family’s needs or your goals, and whether there’s been certain upgrades done on the house, whether it’s the roof, the electrical, the plumbing, that sort of thing. Cause that’ll obviously impact the final budget for the project. So if a house has good bones and I would say it’s, you know, usually the best bet to, to renovate it.

Jennifer-Lee:

And what would you qualify as good bones?

Alex:

No foundation issues, no framing issues that sort of, you know, that sort of thing,

Jennifer-Lee:

Something else that people don’t talk about when we are looking at older homes and we want to renovate them is as asbestos. A lot of them have asbestos and that is an extra cost that a lot of people don’t want to pay, but you have to, if you’re moving walls.

Alex:

Yeah. So for anything before 1990, you have to test for asbestos and you know, and unfortunately that is one of the things that you do come across in a rhino and, you know, that could drastically increase your budget of potentially $30,000 or even more depending on what’s containing. So yeah, it’s just one of those realities that you’ll have to face.

Jennifer-Lee:

And did you guys have to deal with that in the Vancouver special?

Alex:

We did. Yes.

Jennifer-Lee:

What’s a rough cost. I know it depends on each host, but what do you usually look at for asbestos for anyone thinking out there?

Alex:

It depends on where the asbestos is contained and what your scope of work for the project is, but it could be as simple as removing lino tile for a thousand, $2,000 to, a full gut of a house, which could be $30,000 depending on the size of the house. So yeah, it really does just depend on the scope of work.

Mike:

Well, you raised an important point and that’s this, when you open up walls, you don’t necessarily know what you’re going to find. So unlike new construction, not everything is predictable. This usually can change the conversation very, very quickly. So we should talk about expectations versus reality because we have to, I assume you budget for some of these unforeseen X factor issues, but definitely budgets can get in the way of a vision. And, you know, people think it’s going to be a hundred and ends up being $300. In the case of the Vancouver special, I have two questions. Number one, how did you help Holly prioritize what she did and didn’t do? And number two, who was leading this process in terms of qualifying what gets done and what doesn’t get done.

Alex:

Good question. Mike, usually kind of what happens in the process as the homeowner in this case, Holly has a long list of things that you want to get done, right? We come by, we take a look at the house and, you know, from that visit, we’ve done this long enough to know what sort of, I mean, we’re all kind of shooting in the wind until you kind of get drawings and specs and all that kind of stuff done. But you know, we’re able to give our a rough budget based on everything that she wanted to do. And at that point, it’s, I think really the only person that can help prioritize that as a homeowner themselves, we can tell them what makes sense to do in phases or what makes sense to do now versus later. She had to make the decision of this is what the number I wanted to spend, or this is what I want to put. And then we kind of gear our scope of work and the discussions moving forward with that budget. You know, if you have a $200,000 budget, there’s no point in talking about doing the whole house and the exterior, because it’s just a waste of everyone’s time. If your priorities are to get the kitchen and the living space done for you and your family now then great. That was kind of the discussion that we had. And all the resources were kind of led to down that street.

Cara:

This particular project, she did want to do everything and we design stuff for the basement. But knowing that her budget wouldn’t allow that we put that money towards the main floor, cause that would make the biggest difference on like the livability of the space where this main floor could be a self-containing renovation later down the road. And that’s where like Alex and I work as a team to help them navigate what’s worth the investment because having that main floor open up and the kitchen redone, all the bathrooms is going to put more equity back into your house, then having everything done at a lower quality, just to try to get everything for your budget, which wasn’t realistic to start with.

Alex:

You know, if you can’t get everything for your budget, I think part of what’s good to have a builder on early on is if she’s doing the design for the whole house, you know, there might be potential impacts of that first phase that might have an impact on the second phase. So we’re kind of planning for that because while the work was going on, she was living in the basement and there was work that had to happen, but we were able to kind of plan for that in advance.

Mike:

Alex, I think you hit the nail right on the head. When you’re working with a great professional, they will do two things. Number one, they will help you plan in such a way that you can do it in phases. And two, they will help you plan each stage and the timing for each stage because hey, let’s face it. Not all of us have an unlimited pot of money to do this, but the right professional can help you do it in an organized logical fashion so that it will continue to grow with you.

Alex:

Yeah. And I think in regards to that process, you know, I was kind of the one responsible with walking Holly through getting the budget done, getting the permits and getting all the necessary requirements, ready to start before construction. But you know, Cara was working on the design for the whole house, but in terms of planning for the actual construction, we knew just to plan for just doing the main floor. So kind of prioritizing time and money way.

Mike:

Hey, in between when you started construction and you started talking to Holly, how long was the process? Just so people understand and have a realistic expectation. It’s not a couple of weeks like on TV, right?

Alex:

No.

Cara:

Well design, you should allow at least three months, like six months is good depending on the size of your project, but you need to allow time for design plus your permits. And then if you need to move out or find other accommodation, so you should allow, I would say at least six months for this kind of process and budgeting design and budgeting process to happen.

Alex:

Yeah. A good rule of thumb is if, if your construction is going to take three, four months, you should allow that same kind of time beforehand before you start, because that’ll just make the process a lot.

Cara:

It’s important for design to give yourself time because you’re making a lot of decisions, rapid-fire. And sometimes you find yourself making a decision just for sake of making a decision because you’ve made so many. So you need time to like walk away, talk with your partner, breathe and really digest what you’ve decided that in the end makes for more successful project, because you’ll have less regrets. So if you’re trying to cram and hold design in less time, then you’re going to make decisions that you’re not necessarily happy with just because you had to make one.

Jennifer-Lee:

That’s the thing. People don’t think about it in construction. And that’s why it’s important to have a great interior designer and great builder as a team because building does take time and you want to give it time to make, you don’t want to rush it. And on top of that, you want to have a great plan. When you have a great plan that allows you enough time to make a great home.

Mike:

Well then you’re not scrambling at the end trying to get everything done. When we make our decisions in design, it gives time for the contractor to budget it, to order items because not a lot of stuff is actually stocked in Vancouver. So lots of items will have at least a two week lead time if not longer. So you need time for those products to be onsite and get to Vancouver, when you actually need them.

Jennifer-Lee:

You bring up a great point. A lot of people forget about that. It’s like they don’t instantly just come. You want that faucet. It’s got to travel from somewhere else. So give yourself time.

Mike:

Yeah, we’re waiting way longer now. Not just for building materials, but everything, appliances, electronics, everything because everybody’s at home making these changes. So you also have to factor in that what might have been a six month wait a few months ago could now be a nine month wait and that’s just the way it is. But again, working with your builder and your designer will help you plan these things and help you plan a realistic timeline. And then they’ll advise you the lay of the land when it comes time to do your project.

Alex:

And unfortunately the shows on TV don’t necessarily do it justice in terms of how long it really takes to plan beforehand and you know, to actually build, it does take time.

Mike:

Alex and Cara, I’m really loving this renovation story and we’re getting a lot of great information and we want to take a deep dive into knowing if your home is worth renovating. But first we do have to take a quick break to thank our podcast sponsors. So hang in and we’ll be back in 30 seconds.

Jennifer-Lee:

Measure Twice, Cut Once is grateful for the support from our podcast partners BC Housing, BC Hydro, and Fortis BC. Their support helps us share expert knowledge and resources like you’re hearing today from Alex and Cara to help build design and renovate the right for you.

Mike:

And speaking of resources the BC Energy Step Code Program is a provincial standard that is moving the entire home building industry forward to build better homes with better energy efficiency standards, which means better comfort, health and safety. Be sure to check out www.betterhomesbc.ca, where you can find a variety of rebates for construction materials, home, energy evaluations, plus mortgage and tax refunds.

Jennifer-Lee:

There are also rebates for renovations to. Just click on the rebate search tool button on the homepage of www.betterhomesbc.ca to find cost savings resources for your next project or talk of your licensed builder or professional contractor. They’ll help guide you. Now let’s get back to Alex and Cara.

Mike:

All right. So let’s start the conversation now about knowing whether your home is worth renovating. There are definitely some benefits to renovating versus new. We touched upon a few of them earlier, but I’m hoping that you can tell us a little about some of the bigger benefits beyond just what we talked about earlier.

Alex:

I would say some of the big benefits of renovating, you know, a lot of the times, if you are doing a renovation, or if you’re building new, your house is going to be a lot smaller. So when you’re renovating, you will have some grandfathered leeway with either the city of Vancouver or the city of Burnaby or wherever you’re living. Obvious cost savings if you’re building new, the timeframe to do that is much longer two year process. If you’re looking at renovation, it’ll be at least it could be half that, you know, construction of six months and permitting. So you’re about a year. That’s what I would say would be kind of the big benefits of renovating versus building new.

Cara:

Some of the benefits are like how excited you have a bigger house touching back on the Vancouver special. You have windows along the side and there’s glazing requirements each time the building code comes out, there are stricter and stricter. So if you were building that house new, or actually trying to change the glazing on the side, you wouldn’t even be allowed to have windows. So with a Vancouver special and just renovating it, you actually get more daylight in from the sides of your house, which you wouldn’t get on a lot of houses.

Mike:

What about with an older house, as far as energy efficiency, can you guys bring an older house up to a more modern specification for energy?

Alex:

Of course, yeah. There’s installation. There’s window upgrades that can be done. And appliances, pot lights, electrical it’s, there’s many upgrades out there that you can do.

Jennifer-Lee:

The nice thing about the Vancouver special or other types of older homes. They are like a blank canvas inside. And I know I said it to you before, but when I was scrolling on Instagram, like I love the kitchen and it’s got this like cool, really funky floral print, like underneath the kitchen island. So tell us a little bit about your design process and how you kind of took this ugly duckling of a home and made it a fun trendy place to be.

Cara:

The project was actually really fun to work on. It’s like a diamond in the rough. You don’t often get clients who are open to really bold colors and patterns. So it’s really fortunate to be able to kind of flex that design muscle a bit. For this project, the client actually really loved some elements of the Vancouver special house. So we retain some stuff, but just updated. So we took like the railing and powder-coated it to gold to tie in with our metal finishes throughout. And she came to me with that wallpaper that you see on the back of the island. And we’re like, where are we going to make this work? Where initially we wanted to tile the back of the island for durability because when people are sitting there, their feet and knees are going to be scuffing it up. But we looked at dozens of tiles and just none of them sparked joy. And we kept on going back to this wallpaper. We’re like, how do we make this work? Because it’s really bold. And there was a durability concern. So we ended up creating a plexiglass frame around it so that if your feet touch it, it’s not going to ruin the wallpaper. And then you could replace the plexiglass later down the road. And then we took the mint color of the Island from the wallpapers to kind of tie it together and have it cohesive and then kept the perimeter cabinets are really soft muted, gray to keep focal on to the island. So you really have to kind of balance what is going to be your feature and everything else, because you don’t want everything to be overstimulating for the eye. Cause then it’s just, it’s just too much for you. And you just want to escape that space where we wanted it to be really livable and to enjoy that space. So we chose our one kind of area tip off and then made everything kind of subdued and just help it along.

Alex:

Yeah. Like she was able to rely on, you know, an interior designer to kind of bring her vision, I guess, to practice or to reality.

Jennifer-Lee:

Yeah. Well you also said too, this woman will search for Vancouver special paraphernalia as well.

Alex:

Yeah, she’s got a photo in her house of an actual Vancouver special. So she was fascinated by it.

Jennifer-Lee:

Cool. Because that’s a neat design element too. It’s like, you’ve gone and changed this home. You’ve made it a bit more modern, but then you’ve got the actual photo of a Vancouver special in the home. So it’s a little bit retro at the same time.

Cara:

Yeah. That was also a part of our design concept. We wanted to bring kind of a nod to the character of the house and the age. So in the bathrooms, we kind of have a mid-century turned leg and we have a smaller hexagon penny round on the floor, which it’s kind of natural. You would expect to see that in those ages of home, but most Vancouver specials have linoleum floor. So it’s kind of like an upscale modernized version of the Vancouver special and obviously open concept, which is today’s standard, which has made it look a little nicer, but kept some of those heritage elements in there.

Mike:

I have a feeling that in a hundred years, what Vancouver specials are left are going to be sought after the way older heritage homes are sought after too. So it’s really neat the way you give a new lease on life to an existing design. Now, speaking of this, lease on life, we’ve talked about some of the design principles that you created. We’ve talked about the methodology and how you help figure out the construction, but the bottom line is all these great ideas are just that great ideas until we come up with some money to pay for them. And to do that, we often use something called the litmus test for those people who don’t know what that litmus test is. Can you explain what it is and why it is so important to use that before we make any decisions as to what we do and where we go?

Alex:

I think a good starting point is, you know, having an idea of what you want to do on the property, whether it’s renovating the kitchen, the whole main floor, the upper floor, I mean, you have to have an idea of what you want to do. A good starting point for cost would be finding out if there are any permits that have been pulled previously on the property. A lot of problems that we come across is, you know, a homeowner is looking at renovating the whole house and they buy the house and, you know, all of a sudden, they find out that while there is a deck that was built here and when you’re submitting the permit and you obviously have to show the deck and everything that’s on the property and you could potentially lose your deck or lose your garage because of work that was done previously without a permit. And that could be if you’re looking at budgeting for a project that aside from even just talking about asbestos, you know, electrical or plumbing, finding out if there’s other, if there’s been permits pulled on the property is a good kind of starting point. I think it really does depend on where you’re living, what your scope of work is.

Jennifer-Lee:

And also time, because I’m not going to say a specific municipality, but some municipalities take longer for permit approval than others too. So just to be aware of that as well.

Alex:

I mean, a renovation permit time could be two months, three months. If you have to go through a development permit application, you know, that could be another eight months on top of it. So time is also a factor.

Jennifer-Lee:

Time is money.

Alex:

Time is money. Yeah.

Jennifer-Lee:

Okay. So when you are wanting to have a home and wanting to have it renovated, say, you’re searching for that specific dream property. Should you contact your builder when you’re going through the real estate process if you want to be able to renovate a home? Because maybe there’s some things that you don’t know, like you said, depending on the municipality that you’re in, what kind of permits you can pull. that it’s a good idea when you’re looking for a piece of property to renovate that maybe you should also consult a builder at the site?

Alex:

Absolutely. A lot of the times, you know, homeowners, you know, they buy a piece of property and then they decide to get their builder involved after the fact. At that point could be too late because, you know, if you’re buying a piece of property and your, your builder goes in and says, you know, it’s going to be $300,000 to do this. Well, you could have a factored that into your mortgage, or you could have made a different decision on the property. So I think the earlier you get your builder on just the better, there’s really going to be no one that’s going to know the cost of building or the cost of your project than a builder would.

Jennifer-Lee:

Going back to the whole idea of like meeting the builder, knowing a builder and bring them on to any of the ideas. Like they’re there for wisdom. We don’t want to make this like a headache for people. So it’s good to like talk to your builder, get their expertise, because they’ll know too, like if you want a laneway house, but you’re in a municipality that doesn’t build laneway houses. Like, they’ll be like, well, don’t buy in that municipality. Right?

Alex:

Yeah, I would rather have a homeowner call me and say, “we’re looking at buying this piece of property. You know, we want to do X, Y, and Z. What do you think it’s going to cost?” And, you know, we’d offer our advice and say, ‘Hey, you know, you’re kind of looking at, let’s say number of two to $300,000’. Whereas as a homeowner, you’re not going to know, you might think like, oh, it might be $50,000 – $75,000 to do it. So I’d rather have somebody to do that, then, you know, the vice-versa where they bought the house. And then now you’re like, well, we want to do this. And we’re like, well, it’s going to cost this. And now you’re kind of at the point where you’re going to really have to cut back on the scope of work or try to find the money somehow, or make alternate arrangements. But I do really appreciate it when potential clients call before they buy the property, even though they don’t really own it. So it could be, you know, potential waste of time. But at least, you know, that they’re going to make a proper financial decision because you’re going to have more information going into it.

Mike:

I think that really underscores the value of teamwork too. And that the bottom line is the people get the most successful results and the best results who surround themselves with the best people on their team, whether it’s the real estate agent, the builder, the designer, and everybody in the process in between, we all have a role to play in it. And it’s incumbent on us as homeowners to surround ourselves with the best people, for those best results.

Jennifer-Lee:

From an interior designer perspective. If somebody is looking to do a full gut in a home I’m like your Vancouver special, and they’re like, ah, maybe you get another kind. That’s like, I want to redesign a Vancouver special, something like this. Is there any input from you in the real estate process that you think you could add to the table? Or should they just stick with like asking questions to the builder?

Cara:

I think having a designer’s input is valuable because you might look at it in a different way. Homeowner does. And they’re like, Oh, I want to do X, Y and Zed, but then that’s going to not actually work out. It’s not going to give them the space that they want because not very many people can actually envision what a space looks like. And so they’re just like, yeah, this seems really straightforward. But then when you actually start putting it kind of together, it’s not going to be feasible. It’s not going to give them what they want to achieve. And so you have to look for a different property that might be more cost-effective to achieve that, or that actually has the bones and the connection of the rooms that can.

Jennifer-Lee:

So really people should be taking you guys along in their pocket or asking you questions because you obviously can’t take a whole bunch of people if you at the moment, but you’re there and you want to help, or we’re a great team when we all work together. Right?

Cara:

Yeah,

Mike:

Exactly.

Jennifer-Lee:

And this is a question I ask a lot of builders and it would be great question to ask you too Cara is when somebody is looking to find a builder or find an interior designer, what are some questions me as the homeowner should be asking you guys when I’m interviewing you so I can make the right decision?

Alex:

Aside from, you know, the qualitative questions of, you know, like, what’s your process, what’s your budget like? Or, you know, do you sub it out? Do you do it in house? I would say, you know, find somebody you feel like you can get along with, you know, because, you know, in a renovation, it is a long process. And when you are involved from the beginning, you are dealing with this person almost every day for, you know, for a year. So I feel like it’s see if you can actually connect with this person and feel if you know, to something that you can see yourself talking to for the next, you know, year, I think is, is an important factor when deciding who you want to work with. And that’s just that kind of that trust element. You feel it’s hard to have that after, you know, clients are making decisions after one visit in a couple of website links in some references. But, um, yeah, I think aside from, you know, the normal kind of questions you should ask, I think that’s something that’s important to consider,

Cara:

What I tell all my clients is like Alex said, you have to feel comfortable talking to them because communication is so important during a renovation or any kind of project, whether it’s a new build or not, because you have to be able to communicate clearly to make sure that I’m understanding what you’re wanting or vice versa. So if you don’t feel like you can communicate successfully with that person, then they might not be the right fit for you.

Mike:

So before we end our discussion, I’d really like to know what some of the emerging building and home design trends are. And I’m going to ask each of you what your perspective is because one of you is looking at it from a builder’s perspective and a designer’s perspective, but style is style. We all got to work together. So Alex I’m going to start with you, what are some of the emerging building and home design trends that you’re seeing that get you excited?

Alex:

So definitely as part of our renovations, we are upgrading electrical panels. So we do see a lot of, you know, a big trend is adding EV chargers. I think people are looking forward where, you know, they may not have an electric vehicle right now, but they are kind of looking five, 10 years down the road. And you know, the incremental cost to do that is, is minimal. If, if you are doing a large scale project. So I would say, you know, having a, a charger onsite. Soundproofing, I feel seems to be pretty popular now, especially with, you know, installation, people are working from home, the kids are home they’re loud. So, putting ROXUL, double air, dry wall, that sort of thing is a trend might not have been the case a couple of years ago. And you know, the standard, you know, windows and, you know, high efficiency furnaces and that sort of stuff.

Jennifer-Lee:

You just said, Mike’s favorite words, soundproofing for kids.

Mike:

Well, I was actually thinking soundproofing so my kids don’t yell at me for playing music too loud in the other room. But yes, for kids

Jennifer-Lee:

Going to say for kids, cause you work from home, but

Mike:

I thought you were inferring that I was a kid and you’re not that far off.

Mike:

Cara I’d like to hear from you because you have a very different perspective. And you’re probably looking at a lot of different things than I am. What are you seeing that really gets you excited and what makes you like wake up every morning going – I can’t wait to get to work?

Cara:

Well, just design in general, but interesting because with like Pinterest and Houzz and HTTV, you don’t see as much like really defining trends as much as you did before. Like say in the eighties or nineties where you can like walk into a house and be like, Oh, this was done in 2005 or 1990, but I’m starting to see a lot more archways and kind of more softer curves, which are really nice. You’re getting a lot more work from home stations are kind of designated office spaces, which might’ve been utilized as something else previously before COVID, I’m finding that kind of the blonde oak floors are trickling into more medium classic tone. So a little bit more like that longevity and kind of colors that are not going to age just quickly.

Alex:

I have a question on the design trend. I know we’re working on a project right now where you specified unlacquered brass. I know that something unlacquered brass is something you would see taken out of a nineties, West Van home. Do you think that’s an upcoming design trend or is that your style?

Cara:

I’m really excited about unlacquered brass. So brass is what you would see in the nineties and that was lacquered. So it was never going to change color. We’re an unlacquered brass is kind of taking that gold trend that you’re seeing right now, but it’s kind of ages it patina is every time you touch it, it changes color and it ages. So that like a year or two years down the road, instead of having a shiny gold faucet, you’re going to have this beautiful kind of caramel gold, and it tells a story. So you’re telling your story every time you touch that faucet and kind of ages in place with you.

Alex:

So, should we save that nineties faucet then?

Cara:

No, because it’s not going to age.

Jennifer-Lee:

I think that’s cool though. Cause you, you brought in a neat element. It’s like we’re taking some of these, even though some of the eighties and nineties design elements are hideous. I can remember going through some homes while little and you’re like, Ooh, that looks bad, but we’re taking those things and we’re taking them from even further back and using them now and making them new and making them more modern. And I think that’s cool because like you said, you know, back in the day, there’s some gorgeous homes, but now it’s like, they’re beautiful, but they don’t have those signature elements. And we’re starting to add those more into homes,

Cara:

You’re taking something that was nice in the nineties, but you’re taking it and modernizing and elevating it now and giving it more of a, kind of a classic and timeless feel to it. So instead of yellow gold, that’s going to stay yellow, gold, so you have gold. That’s going to age. So think of an old like Downton Abbey kitchen or something where you get this beautiful, warm faucet over time that just tells a story of the homeowners and the family members.

Jennifer-Lee:

The one thing that I do want them to bring back, but a lot of older homes, which people are probably like thinking I’m crazy, but you know, the bathtubs that are, that have the steps to them in a lot of the homes, I think like some of them are hideous, but I’m like, I’m hoping that makes a comeback.

Cara:

Well, actually that’s a good point. I have been doing a lot more deck mount tubs because people like to have like a glass of wine or stick your tablet and watch Netflix or have candles going, which you can’t really do that with a freestanding tub. And if you’re older and are going to have any mobility issues later on a freestanding, tub is really hard to get in and out of where a deck mount one, you can get out, you have a step or it’s not as high to step down.

Jennifer-Lee:

And like I said, we can make them prettier now we don’t need to make them look like the eighties ones with the pink bathtub and like the questionable tile around it.

Cara:

Not at all.

Mike:

That pink pastel was very relaxing and soothing. I do have one question. You earlier talked about Pinterest and Houzz and I’m just, this is just a general question, but has your job gotten harder or easier? Because it feels like we have way more things to choose from now than we had before. So on one hand it’s a wider variety of options. But on the other hand, how do you manage all that abundance to a simplified form that doesn’t overwhelm someone like me?

Cara:

That’s a good question. So some get really lost down that rabbit hole. Some people are like, Cara, I have no idea what I want just telling me, but we always start our designs off with you give me a few inspiration pictures. I’ll use that as a jumping off point. So you might give me half a dozen off of Pinterest or house, and then I’ll use that and create a design concept. So that’s really just like a slideshow that steers the design direction to make sure we’re on the same page because Mike, you might tell me your design style is modern, but in reality, your design style is anything but modern. So to make sure that we’re visualizing the same things, because that’s, again, back to the communication, we want to make sure that that’s really clear or else you’re going to be like, well, why did you design me this super modern house when that’s not what I want at all?

Jennifer-Lee:

And those words get thrown around. Like we had a client that worked with an interior designer and they were like, Oh, we don’t want traditional, Oh, we want modern. But it wasn’t because anything they liked was traditional. And that’s why choosing the right designer that’s going to help you teach those words and have a better understanding of those styles and guide you through the process.

Alex:

And I think, yeah, you need somebody to tell you like, no, don’t do that. We’re working with the client in an older, say character style house. And their style is very much modern, but if you’re not going to put modern in old traditional house, right? It’s just, just doesn’t make sense. So I think just having somebody tell you, like, no, that’s, that’s a bad idea.

Jennifer-Lee:

Don’t put that pink pastel tub in there.

Cara:

Let’s elaborate on that a little bit more. Sometimes your house wants to be something. And that’s also why bringing designer on when you’re looking for a house is good. Because if you really are very contemporary and you’re looking at more of a heritage home in Kitsilano, then I’m not going to design your super modern house. Cause that’s going to feel really jarring because there needs to be some harmony between like the house. And so a lot of times your house might steer the design direction. It wants to be in.

Jennifer-Lee:

I never thought about that actually. That’s really smart. And it’s like the house steers of design direction. Like don’t try to make it something that it’s not,

Mike:

Well also trust your designer. I mean, I might have an idea of what color I like I’m colour blind. I don’t, but, and I might have an idea of what style I like, but ultimately I don’t do this for a living. You do, and you have a much better idea how to make it all work together. And this is the thing that people don’t think about too. You also know how to do a way more efficiently than I do. So you’re going to get better results at a lower price in shorter period of time. And that just speaks to trusting the professionals you work with.

Jennifer-Lee:

You want to make sure it ages well, too, because a lot of people are going to live in these homes for a while. So like the trend might be brass right now, but will that carry on years down the road? I don’t know?

Cara:

Yeah. And some people are like, Oh, I’m going to like it. That’s fine. Or if you’re like, Oh, I’m going to do brass handles. That’s a really easy thing to change out down the road if that trend has died out, but some bigger items or like tiles that might be harder to change out. You want to be a little bit more cognizant.

Alex:

or red kitchen or something.

Cara:

cognizant of what’s more affordable to change or what’s going to age well like you said.

Jennifer-Lee:

Yeah, like that cow print tile might look cool in the kitchen, but it might not be awesome in like two years.

Mike:

Well, correct me if I’m wrong. There’s a whole section on Pinterest titled ‘It was a good idea at the time.’ Right?

Cara:

Or you have to know that you’re really, really going to like this, like on our Vancouver special project, we chose colours that the client loved and has loved for years. And so yes, it is very bold and it’s going to be too bold for a lot of people, but these are colours she loves and knows that she loves. So those are why we pick those over other ones.

Jennifer-Lee:

Oh, that’s great. Because you’re not going to ever walk in the kitchen and be like, I really hate that fuchsia pink colour. You can be like, I love it. And it evokes emotion in her and that’s what design is about. Right?

Cara:

Yeah.

Mike:

Well, I think the other thing that I’ve learned is that you’re designing complete spaces. You’re not designing the countertop or the tiles. You’re designing a complete unified space and everything has to go together. Just like everything else in the house, the doors will have to match. The windows will have to be the same. The electrical outlets all have to be the same. Why can’t these elements all have a commonality as well. And again, that’s why we have someone like you, because you know, so much more about how to tie all those things together.

Jennifer-Lee:

And that’s why we have the builder.

Mike:

Absolutely Measure Twice, Cut Once.

Cara:

One of the things I say a lot is you don’t necessarily notice good design, but you notice bad design. So if you ever just are sitting in people watching and hear people talking about like a mall or something, and it’s because something functionally doesn’t work, like if your light switches behind the door, or like your cabinet, isn’t intuitively where you want it to be, that’s bad design. And that’s things that really make an impact negative impact on your life. So that’s where having a designer really plan out every little thing in there will help your space be good. And you won’t notice these weird jarring things that don’t work.

Jennifer-Lee:

If you need an interior designer, if you’re doing a full reno, like maybe if you’re just painting a wall fine. But like, if you’re gonna do a full reno, get an interior designer, you’re gonna make your life a lot easier. The builder’s life a lot easier. Everyone will be more happy.

Alex:

And you’ll save yourself money too because they’ll be able to specify everything and you know, your, your contractor will be able to come up with a good budget rather than just kind of shooting from the hip.

Jennifer-Lee:

And they can communicate with the builder, like most clients, this is not their realm. So it’s like, you guys know you’re speaking the same language, you know, about like different specs and everything like that. The client doesn’t know that. Right?

Cara:

One example, I use a lot and especially working with Level One is I’m involved with them during construction. I do site visits and they’ll call me and be like, hey Cara, can we move the pot light over, say four inches. And if they’re calling the clients or like, say you, Mike, you’d be like, sure, but I’m going to come and look at it and be like, no, if we move it four inches back, that’s going to negatively impact. It’s going to be shadowing you from behind or this and this. And this is the reasoning. So I’m going to have a much different perspective to answer those questions than just a homeowner, because they’re not going to be thinking about those things they don’t know about that.

Alex:

Or alternatively, you know, if, if you remove something from the budget, you know, the designer would be like, well, why did you do that? Because you know, it has this impact on this. And anyways, I know we’ve had that discussion many times.

Mike:

Alex and Cara, this episode has been very informative. Learning about the value of breathing new life into an old home has inspired me to revisit my own home plans. And today we’ve learned so much. How to work with a builder who is experienced in renovating older homes and builds in the municipality to help navigate building codes and bylaws for the region. Working with a designer who understands your needs and visions, helping the homeowner define the budget early in the process and helping find a builder before you start looking for properties. If you could leave our listeners with just one last piece of advice, what would it be?

Alex:

Get your contractor involved as early on in the process to establish a realistic budget.

Cara:

Leave yourself enough time for design and leave yourself enough time to digest it because you don’t want to regret any decisions that you make during the whole process, and be open with your designer. Even if like I’m never going to be offended if you don’t like something that I present, like there’s thousands of options out there. So open communication, time to digest your decisions and have fun with it.

Jennifer-Lee:

And lacquered brass is making a comeback?

Cara:

I like unlacquered brass.

Jennifer-Lee:

Oh, unlacquered brass is making a comeback. Perfect.

Mike:

Sadly, lacquered brass never went away.

Cara:

No, we don’t want lacquered brass.

Jennifer-Lee:

Obviously, I’m not an interior designer. This is why you’re in the studio. That’s why it’s important to have an interior designer.

Mike:

Look at all the things we’ve learned from interior designers that we didn’t know before.

Jennifer-Lee:

Very true. And Cara and Alex, if they want to get in contact with you now, hearing this episode, maybe you’ve got more Vancouver specials on the horizon. How can they get in contact with each other?

Alex:

You can check us out on our website www.Levelone.ca and you can stop by our office. We’re just over on First and Clark, or give us a call our phone number is (604) 647-1718. We’re always around.

Cara:

You can follow me on Instagram. It’s TripleDotDesignStudio, or check me out on my website, which is the same www.tripledotdesignstudio.com.

Mike:

If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please follow and share with your friends and family. The more followers we have, the better chance more people will find our podcast and the excellent resources our guests are sharing. I’m learning so much about planning for my own home project. Understanding the value found in our existing homes and the possibilities through good design and an experienced knowledgeable builder and designer. I’m thinking about my home might just be an award-winning design one day too.

Jennifer-Lee:

Here’s hope Mike, with proper planning and a realistic budget, I believe you can get there, but first make sure your home has some good bones. Get a builder over to help you define your options.

Mike:

That’s good advice as always Jennifer Lee speaking as a seasoned professional.

Jennifer-Lee:

Thanks for joining us today, we look forward to talking to you next week. This has been Measure Twice, Cut Once, the podcast from HAVAN, the Homebuilders Association Vancouver. Thanks for joining us today!

Mike:

For notes and links to everything mentioned on today’s episode, go to www.havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce

Jennifer-Lee:

Follow us and review us to help empower homeowners like yourself to make the right decision the first time.

Mike:

Until next time. This is Mike Freedman.

Jennifer-Lee:

And I’m Jennifer-Lee reminding you to Measure Twice.

Mike:

And Cut Once.