WHAT’S THE DRILL?

Kathy Yuen, owner of Phase One Design drills into the importance of keeping the communication channels open for the success of your home building project. Hint, it takes more than coffee and donuts!

Listen to “What’s the Drill? Home Building Communication Strategies” on Spreaker.

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Kathy is an Architectural Technologist, and founder of Phase One Design.  Phase One is a residential building design and interior design firm.  They work with homeowners across Canada to design their dream homes, whether building new or doing a major renovation.

Her award-winning firm has helped over 662 homeowners design their dream homes. Their work can be seen from Victoria to Nova Scotia and has been featured in numerous publications including House and Home Magazine, Best Home Magazine, the Globe and Mail, and more. They have studio locations in Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, and Kelowna.

Kathy hosts the YouTube Channel, Custom Homes with Kathy, and regularly appears on the main stage at the Home + Garden Shows in Vancouver and Calgary. She is a well-recognized business leader, advocate, and educator in the custom home community, and has been nominated twice for RBC’s Women Entrepreneur of the Year.

Kathy’s vision is to leave a legacy in the world, one dream home at a time. In her limited free time, she loves anything outdoors, hanging out with her family, friends, and is a Fur-Baby-Mum to her beloved French Bulldog Brutus.

Win a gas BBQ, compliments of FortisBC! Simply like and share HAVAN’s new podcast, Measure Twice, Cut Once on your social channels, and you will be entered for the chance to win! Valued at over $1,000 be sure to share this podcast! Contest closes November 30th. Details.

Jen:

Welcome to Measure Twice, Cut Once the podcast from HAVAN, the Homebuilders Association Vancouver.

Mike:

From code to closets,

Jen:

safety to skylights.

Mike:

We’ll take you behind the walls and all things, home building and renovation.

Jen:

and give you the ins and outs from the experts on what you should know.

Mike:

in plain language.

Jen:

about home building design and renovation.

Mike:

I’m Mike Friedman,

Jen:

and I’m Jennifer Lee. Now that you’re here, why not hit subscribe? And you’ll never miss an episode.

Mike:

And don’t forget to share with your family, friends or anyone else, you know, who might be thinking of a project in their home now or in the future?

Mike:

Well, hello, Jennifer Lee, how you doing today?

Jen:

Awesome Mike, and you?

Mike:

I am fantastic. And I’m excited too. Today is a really special day. It’s the ninth episode wrapping up Season One of Measure Twice, Cut Once.

Jen:

I can’t believe it’s over already, but it’s been amazing season. And we’ve had some really heavy hitters in the studio this season

Mike:

Award-winning builders and leaders in our industry. People like Shakespeare Homes, Maestro Development, and JDL Homes,

Jen:

And don’t forget the designers too. Sarah Gallop, Amy McKay and today’s guest, which I love to see always Kathy Yuen

Mike:

And the common thread that connects all of these experts is the importance of taking the time to plan upfront and good communication.

Jen:

Good communication is essential, especially in 2020.

Mike:

So let’s turn to our guest and chat with Kathy Yuen. Welcome Kathy.

Kathy:

Thanks so much guys. It’s so great to be here.

Mike:

You’re an architectural technologist, the owner of Phase One Design, and we are really, really looking forward to chatting with you today.

Kathy:

Awesome. I’m looking forward to being here.

Jen:

Well, Kathy, I love asking this question to everyone. I know, I know quite a bit about you, but for everyone that doesn’t know about you, I want to know what is your journey and tell us a little bit about Phase One Design.

Kathy:

Sure. Absolutely. So I am the Founder and President of Phase One Design. My background in training, like Mike mentioned, I am an architectural technologist. I actually started my career being an onsite construction project manager. And there’s like a whole long story behind that, which I won’t get into.

Jen:

Share a little bit about that.

Kathy:

Okay.

Jen:

We want to get to know you

Kathy:

I can do that. So, my first dream job was, I always wanted to be an onsite construction project manager, like working side-by-side with the trades and doing that whole thing. I just thought that was really cool. So, I actually ended up getting that job and only because I was not qualified because I wasn’t an engineer, I was an architectural technologist, but I went in for an interview and that’s basically what they told me. So instead of just like taking no for an answer, I actually literally called the guy every day for, I think it was like two months and I was like, Hey, is there an opening now? Is there an opening now? Is there an opening now? And finally I think he was just like getting really sick of me calling him every day. And he basically said to me, Hey, okay, fine. We have a position for you, but we’re going to ship you out to Canmore. So at the time I lived in Calgary, which for those of you who don’t know the distance, that’s like a two hour drive. Every single morning, I had to drive two hours to Canmore. And then at the end of the day, I had to drive from Canmore back to Calgary for two hours, like four of community every day. But the really cool thing about all of that, that came out of all that is I had a site superintendent with like 30 years of experience, plus that I drove with every day, his name was Norm. And to this day I still think he’s my number one mentor that I’ve ever had in my entire life. And I would just bug him with so many questions to do with construction. So basically I got four hours of on the job training and like face to face with like this really smart construction guy. So I learned so much during those few years that I actually commuted back and forth to Canmore. So that was my first career. And then in the background, I was doing a lot of design and drafting just for, you know, people that I knew on the side and then my client base, I guess if you could even call it that at the time. It started growing and growing. And just that one point I had to make a decision. Okay, do I keep continuing my quote unquote dream career, which I thought was, um, construction manager or do I pursue my own thing? So, you know, I’m in my twenties and how hard could a business possibly be? So I decided, okay, well I’m quitting my job and I’m starting my own company. That was in 2006 and Phase One Design was founded and I’ve never looked back.

Jen:

I love that when I talked to a lot of people, their first thing is like, how hard can a business be to start? I don’t know why that’s, everyone’s thought because obviously as you know, and you’re accomplished business woman, businesses are not that easy and you’ve even expanded it over the years. Can you tell us about the new things that phase one is doing?

Kathy:

Yeah, absolutely. So, we actually just in the last six to 12 months, there’s actually been a lot of exciting things that have happened. So we just recently opened an office in Kelowna, which services, all of Okanagan. Now we have also expanded into interior design offerings. So now we can kind of do the whole meal deal, both building design and interior design and on the horizon, which we haven’t even officially announced yet. I guess, for those of you who are listening, you get the sneak peek, we will be expanding into Toronto here in the next six months as well.

Mike:

So that makes you now based in British Columbia, Alberta, and Ontario. So you’ve really got most of Canada cover. Congratulations.

Kathy:

Thank you.

Mike:

During our first season, we’ve talked about everything you need to know before the shovel hits the ground. And then we touched a bit on the actual construction phase. Our common thread is working with people you can relate to with the ability to communicate openly and honestly. Can you talk us through some of the importance of good communication and good communication based on trust?

Kathy:

I think just two things that you said there, Mike, it was communication and trust, which I think both of them are highly related. Communication needs to occur very transparently and very openly. And when that actually happens, it builds trust. What I mean by that is between all the different parties that are involved in a construction project. If you actually think about it, there’s a ton of different people that are involved in a construction project. Whether you’re building a brand new house or renovating, you know, you have just to name a few, you have your designer have your builder, you have all your different consultants. You have the trades that are on-site. So in order to effectively execute that project successfully, you need to make sure that the lines of communication are solid and you need to make sure that there is that trust built on that.

Jen:

And Kathy, let’s talk about the designing of a home for a second and when I’m the client and I come to you and I’m like, I want you to design my home. What kind of questions are you gonna ask me? Like what type of communication will you have with me to make sure you get all my needs met if I want like a 10 bedroom house and a jacuzzi and all that stuff.

Kathy:

Yeah. So great question. So it’s really, really, an exercise and really diving into somebody’s head, to be honest. So when we actually go through that deep dive, it’s actually a two to three hour meeting, typically where we start off with the client, we sit them down, we start looking through any photos that they might have. And then based on those photos, we’ll actually ask more questions to say, okay, well tell us about your lifestyle. So they’re mostly lifestyle based questions instead of focusing on, you know, the technical aspects of like how much square footage do you need. So once we understand how somebody lives and how they use the space, then you can actually take it from there and then start pulling together a floor plan and a design.

Mike:

I want to talk about that a little bit more. I think we tend to think about communication as the now or within the span of the next two years as we’re starting this project to when we’re finishing this project. But a lot of things in the home technology related change very quickly, and I’m not just talking technology that you plug in, I’m talking flooring, finishes everything in between. So how important is it to communicate with a professional about not just what we’re doing now, but what we think we might be doing 10 years from now and 30 years from now, and how can that have an impact with better results now, and in the future?

Kathy:

It’s really, really important when you’re communicating with a professional at the beginning of your project, giving them the bigger picture of what you’re trying to accomplish. So you’re right. Most people, when they start a project, you know, they say, Hey, I want to renovate or build my house now. But a lot of the questions that we ask as professionals is focused on the long-term future as well. So for example, let’s say you’re a young family and you have two young children. But you’re building your forever home. So what does this space look like? Not just today, but what does it look like in five, 10, 15, maybe even 20 years as your family, not only grows, but you know, if you’re really, truly going to be building your forever house, at some point, you’re going to be an empty-nester. So that whole life cycle of not just your family life, but the life cycle that that home is going to go through, you really do need to consider all those different stages.

Jen:

and Kathy, when you are showing a design to your client, obviously you have to have a lot of communication with them because you don’t want to keep going back to the drawing board. So how do you ensure once you walk your client through the design of their new home, that you’re going to get them to sign off of it and then the road they’re not going to come back and be like, well, actually now I want 10 bedrooms instead of five bedrooms.

Kathy:

How you actually do that. It’s really about asking good questions at the very beginning of the process. So the more questions that we ask at the very beginning are going to prevent us having to go back and forth and redoing design. Redoing design is an indicator, in my opinion, of just like maybe an inexperienced designer.

Jen:

Also bad communication too.

Kathy:

Absolutely. And bad communication as well. So communicating your needs and wants at the very beginning is very important. And I don’t actually think that’s necessarily the homeowner’s job to do that. And I will speak kind of in a broader sense where it’s both the designer’s job and the builder’s job as professionals at the very beginning to come to the table with the homeowner and say, okay, you’re looking to build a house. And here’s the questions that I need to ask you in order to properly assess and give you advice on your specific project.

Mike:

We all do our best as professionals to plan and to help homeowners plan as well. But despite extensive planning and great communication, sometimes things happen. Life happens, illnesses, family emergencies, project delays, supply issues, a worldwide pandemic. When these things happen, we obviously have to react. We have to deal with it. How does your project team and the homeowner plan for the unexpected? And how’s the best way for people to keep in communication while these things are happening, so everyone is clear in their expectations as well as what is going to happen, and when?

Kathy:

So I always like to set proper expectations at the very beginning of the project. And I always do say that because it is a construction project, something at some point is going to happen during the process. No new build is 100% perfect. It’s just being really prepared for it. So it could be something really, really small, or it can be something really, really big, hopefully never, ever again, a worldwide pandemic, but fundamentally like they’re all kind of handled in the same manner. So, in my opinion, if things like that happen, don’t over complicate, it really, it’s just about communicating the issue with each other and just being really, really honest about it and focusing more on the solution and not the problem.

Jen:

Yeah. And touching a little bit on that too, because sometimes when things happen that are out of our control, or sometimes somebody will hire someone that maybe is just not the right fit for them. Some client’s can have really bad past experiences that are kind of scary. So if you’re ever dealing with a client that you are now working with that has had bad experience in the past, how do you communicate with them? So they have a positive experience with you and your team.

Kathy:

I think it’s just again, communicating well from the beginning. So if they already had a bad experience, say with another person or another company, it’s just really understanding what went wrong. Because to your point, Jen, you mentioned fit, right? So like sometimes it can just be literally as simple as it’s not a good fit or maybe there was an unaligned expectations. So for example, perhaps it was the frequency of communication where the client expected, okay, well I want daily communication, but yet, you know, instead of daily communication, maybe it happened every three days and then there that’s where the disconnect happens. So I think it’s just establishing standards at the very beginning of any relationship that you would have with a builder or designer, or basically anyone on your project team and making sure that everybody is aligned and everybody knows what to expect walking into that relationship.

Mike:

I find when I have to give people bad news I do via a musical number and it certainly softens the blow. Love this conversation, but we do have to take a very quick break to thank our podcast partners, but we’ll be back in 30 seconds.

Jen:

Measure Twice, Cut Once is a new podcast. And we’re grateful for the support from our podcast partners, BC Hydro and Fortis BC. Their support helps us share expert knowledge, like we’re hearing today from Kathy to help homeowners design build and renovate right the first time.

Mike:

And if you are enjoying this podcast, please like follow and share with your friends and families. The more followers we have, the better chance more people will find our podcast. And this information is gold Kathy

Jen:

And Kathy, if you like barbecuing, you’ll like this. By liking and sharing us, you’ll be entered in for the chance to win a Napoleon Prestige P 500 stainless steel, natural gas, barbecue from our friends at Fortis BC.

Mike:

Who doesn’t like barbecue. And it is an amazing barbecue valued over a thousand dollars. Now let’s get back to talking with Kathy.

Jen:

We left off talking about the importance of laying out all your communication and making sure that your client has a positive experience instead of a negative one. Plans are super important in establishing roles and having tools and rules and all that. There’s also a lot of people on the project, which we discussed a little bit about at the beginning, but there’s the builder, the interior designer, the technical specialists, who should my homeowner’s point of contact be because it just feels really overwhelming at the moment.

Kathy:

It does feel pretty overwhelming at the beginning, especially as a homeowner and I’ve seen this firsthand because that’s usually when we start talking to homeowners. So the answer to that question is actually different for every project. But I would say as a very general statement, typically homeowners will either gravitate towards talking to a builder first or a designer first, and there’s not really a right or wrong answer to that question. What I would recommend is actually talking to both at the same time, because you want an integrated process. And I think there’s another podcast that talks about this, but you want the integrated process because both professionals are going to bring different areas of expertise to the table. And the sooner that you can kind of get both parties at the table, communicating together the better. And that doesn’t necessarily mean you need to go to like a pure design build team per se. So if you, you know, gravitate towards hiring an independent designer and an independent builder, there’s nothing wrong with that either, but just as long as everyone is at the table together at the very beginning, that will also go a long way in clear communication, right from the get go so that everybody’s in the loop and everybody’s on the same page and there’s no misunderstanding.

Jen:

Thank you for the plug to our previous podcast. Of course, if you want to learn more about the integrated design process, you can check out one of our past episodes with Josh Young, from Maestro Developments. Okay, Kathy, what is one way of communication that you should not be doing?

Kathy:

So the one thing that you should never do, instances where I’ve sat in a meeting together with a builder and a homeowner, and the question will be how much per square foot does my house cost, which everybody, and lots of homeowners ask that. But then the answer to that question, the home builder and myself will say okay, your, your build is going to cost between X amount of dollars and X amount of dollars, and we’ll give them a low high range. And then what’ll end up happening is the homeowner will say, okay, well, I don’t know that number doesn’t really sound good, or, you know, that’s, it’s higher than the number that they wanted to hear. So they’ll go talk to a few other builders, get the same number. And then at some point somewhere along the way, somebody will tell them a number that is much lower than is actually realistic. So basically a low-ball number. So then the homeowner will now walk into that process with this really, really low unrealistic number in their head. And then what’s going to end up happening is they can, they can have that number in their head for as long as they want, but the reality hits when they’re halfway through the build and they start running out of money, which is a really, really sad kind of story you hear just through the grapevine. And like, maybe we’ll get a call in a few months and then somebody will say, Oh my goodness, like, you know, I’m halfway through my build then like we’re two times over budget or whatever disaster story. So you hear some of those nightmare stories and really, it just boils back down to having really transparent communication from the beginning. And when somebody actually tells you, okay, well here’s how much it’s going to cost per square foot. Like actually believing and trusting that expert, not going out and trying to find the answer that you actually want to hear.

Jen:

It’s very true. It unfortunately happens a lot in the construction industry. And like you said, it can be solved by being transparent and being honest between client and whoever team member you’re talking to.

Kathy:

Yeah, absolutely.

Mike:

I think it’s also going back to our Sesame street days, which of these things is not like the other. So if you’re getting a bunch of quotes at one level and one that’s much, much lower, either everyone else is off or something’s not right. And that should raise a red flag. And at the very least spur you on to do some more due diligence and ask a few more questions.

Kathy:

You know to your point where you’re getting a bunch of different numbers in a, you get one low number. I understand that everybody wants to, you know, you don’t mean you want to just talk to one particular person about how much it’s going to cost, but I would just encourage, you know, making sure that you’re talking to a reputable professional. So let’s just say you talked to three different HAVAN members that are telling you kind of the same price range, and then you talk to somebody else who is totally low-balling. Then that’s a huge red flag.

Mike:

Do you want to talk a little bit more about communication. Now when it comes to the frequency and the cadence communication, every project is different, every homeowner’s different, every professionally interface with it is different. So it becomes very hard to say, how often should we be communicating with you, but what I’m hoping you can help us understand is what are the expectations for both sides in regards to communication, however much or little happens?

Kathy:

I don’t think there’s actually a right answer, like a right or wrong answer to that question. I think just as long as everybody around the table is comfortable. So for example, some clients expect and would like to have daily communication and progress updates, which, you know, just as long as everyone around the table, including homeowner designer, builder is comfortable with that, then that’s the right answer for that particular scenario. Whereas, you know, other people say, hey, you know what? I don’t really want to hear from you every day. So maybe once a week is enough or whatever. I think that also depends on where you’re at in the process. So for example, in our firm, if we’re actually in the middle of a design development process, you’re probably likely going to hear from us, you know, a few times a week as we’re doing design development, but during a permitting process, depending on which municipality you’re in, let’s say it’s a six month permit process. Well, at the beginning of that permit process, we set the expectation that here’s, what’s going to happen in the next six months. And don’t be surprised if we don’t hear anything from the city, you know, for, let’s say four weeks, you know, we might check ins then say, hey, how’s it going just while don’t say hi, have a great weekend, but you know, there’s not going to be any progress updates or anything like earth shattering, that’s going to be hopping in the next week. So again, it’s just about setting proper expectations at the beginning as to what to expect. And as a homeowner, if you’re not sure, just ask the question.

Jen:

I think you just said the right thing as well, which is the fact that even if you’re in a stage, that’s maybe not a lot of action is carrying that communication through because you don’t want to leave the homeowner high and dry and be like, I forgot about you. And that makes you a professional by even though there’s nothing to tell, you’re carrying that communication through until when something does happen, you’re keeping them in the loop.

Kathy:

Absolutely.

Jen:

Which brings me to another question. Kathy, if I’m contacting you, should I be texting you about my home you’re designing for me?

Kathy:

So text messaging is great and text messaging has its time and place, but what’s even better than text messaging is email. And the reason why I like emails for lots of different reasons. Email is far superior to text messaging because you can put all relevant parties on it. So then let’s just say, if you’re a homeowner and you would like to see a change to something on your project, like design wise, let’s just say as an example. Well, instead of just emailing your designer, now you can actually CC everybody else on the project team on that. So whether it’s your builder, you know, your significant other or whoever’s actually going to be impacted by that change. And now everybody is going to be kept in the loop. Whereas with the text message, you can’t,

Mike:

When we’re on the job site, things change. Decisions are made, finishes are changed. Lots of things be moving around at once. Who has the final say when these changes need to be made? Is it me as the homeowner being, this is my house. Should I be the lead? Should people come to me? Or how should we handle this to make sure it’s efficient, and everybody’s still on the same page?

Kathy:

First and foremost, I will say yes, on a project as a professional. I think we can all agree., the homeowner is the most important person because they are the client. But that being said, depending on the decision to be made, they may or may not be equipped to actually make the final decision. And I’ll give you an example of that. So we actually had a homeowner once, a true story, where of course the permitting process, I totally understand. It can feel like it takes a long time. So this particular homeowner was very, very frustrated because the permits were taking too long. And you know, we, we assured him, you know, unfortunately, yes, this is how long permits take. And he said to us, well, Hey, you know, why don’t we just go down there and like talk to the supervisor and, you know, kind of hunt them down that way. And we say, okay, well, you know, there’s other means with which to escalate the situation. And now at this exact point in time, this is not the time nor place to actually do that. So what ended up happening is this actual homeowner physically went down to city hall and had a temper tantrum. We actually found out about this a few weeks later and basically got a phone call from our contacts at the city. And they were obviously not very pleased about this. And luckily we had such a good relationship already with a city that they actually called us to tell us this. But he basically was saying, well, you know, normally when things like this happen, the application goes to the bottom of the pile because that’s just inappropriate. So my point is that, you know, in certain situations, whatever your professional tells you to execute, like in terms of decision-making, that’s usually the best advice to follow rather than having the homeowner execute what they think they should.

Jen:

No. And that’s why they hire you as a professional to also teach you the protocols and the ways to communicate. Because at the end of the day, you don’t want the homeowner to do anything that’s going to jeopardize slowing down the project. Like you said, communicating with the homeowner that, you know, look, you’re in this municipality. I know it’s unfortunate, but it could take this amount of months. I think that’s important too, is always having the open communication with your client and showing them how things are done, because let’s face it, a lot of us have never done this before. So that’s where we’re coming to you as the expert to, to teach us the proper protocols.

Kathy:

Absolutely. So that’s basically why professionals are here. We’re here to help homeowners and everybody has the same objective. We don’t like it either when a permit sitting at the municipality, but you know, just trusting the process and trusting your professionals that you have.

Mike:

You know what, it doesn’t matter where you live or what kind of project you’re doing. There is a wait time for permits. The beautiful thing about working with a professional is they know how to best navigate that process, to make it as efficient as possible, to make it as easy as possible and to reduce as much of the pain imaginable as possible. So that way you don’t have to wait in line for hours to have a temper tantrum.

Jen:

And of course there are so many technical terms and that’s another hiring a professional like yourself can help you when it comes to building or renovating your house. What terms do I really need to know as a homeowner so I can be able to communicate with you?

Kathy:

The building envelope, HVAC. And I would say there isn’t just one term here. I would say just understanding the overall process of designing and building.

Jen:

And because we had Doug from JDL Homes, we know what an envelope is, but can you just give us like a one sentence synopsis quickly?

Kathy:

Absolutely. So in very, very layman’s terms, you have your exterior, which is like your outside, like outside your house, which is like an uncontrolled environment, you know, subject to weather and stuff like that. And then you have your interior environment. So your building envelope is basically what separates the two. So it’s your walls and everything that makes up your exterior walls.

Jen:

Perfect. And for people that don’t know what an HVAC is,

Kathy:

HVAC is basically all of your mechanical systems inside your house that keep your house either hot or cool.

Jen:

Awesome. Now we’re experts. Now we can communicate with you properly. And we’ll understand when you’re talking about this crucial stuff to us in the meetings.

Mike:

Absolutely. I do have one question for you when it comes to communication. Not all of us have English as our first language. What is the best resource for overcoming some of these barriers, especially when you’re dealing with multiple generations who may not all be able to speak English and you may not be able to speak their mother language?

Kathy:

We actually deal with quite a bit of that in Vancouver because we work often with international clients. So one of the best ways I find is the universal language of images. So using photos and pictures and images to actually communicate what it is that you want, I find is very, very powerful. The other thing that is also really good, and we have this as well. Um, and this is how we communicate with our international clients is to actually have a translator at the table that actually speaks both languages fluently, so English and then whatever other second languages around the table. And the other really important thing about having a translator, as well as having a consistent translator. To have that person at the very beginning of the process, and then all the way through the process, right until the end. So that there’s that consistency there.

Jen:

Because there are so many experts out there nowadays, and so many different resources online, how do you find the experts that you’re going to be able to trust and communicate with?

Kathy:

You’re absolutely right, Jen. So when you go out there, it’s almost overwhelming how much information is out on the internet or, you know, you talked to one person, they give you other information. So you’re right. It is overwhelming. I will say, I hate to say it, but there is a lot of misinformation out there, that I’ve seen myself first hand. So I guess my best advice is to make sure that you’re speaking with somebody who is local and like understands Greater Vancouver, wherever it is that you’re building, as a general rule on, and also just understanding and setting realistic expectations for yourself as a homeowners that experts may cost you like a little bit more upfront, but they can save you a ton of money in the long run. So for example, you know, we work a lot in the City of Vancouver and we love working in City of Vancouver, but their process can be more complicated than other municipalities let’s say. So one of the first things that you actually need to do at the very beginning of the process is engage an arborist to actually come out and assess the trees. So it’s really actually important to make sure you are using somebody who’s familiar with what the City of Vancouver wants because the arborist isn’t just going out there to assess a tree, there’s a whole report that they do and there are standards that the City of Vancouver wants to see coming out of that report. So I’ve seen instances where, you know, we would recommend to someone at the very beginning of the process, we haven’t even been engaged yet, but we say here’s a list of experts that are familiar with City of Vancouver and here’s who you should use. But then, you know, we find out maybe in a few months they call us back and they say, oh, well, you know, I use a friend of a friend and my cousin or whoever, somebody that wasn’t on, on our list that wasn’t familiar with the City of Vancouver. And then unfortunately the data and the report that they actually gave us didn’t meet the requirements of the City of Vancouver, even though they were less money. So then in that case, we had to rehire an arborist and go through that whole process again. So the point is that not only should you make sure you’re engaging the proper expert and professional, but recognizing that even if it costs you a little bit more upfront in the long run, it can save you a lot of money.

Jen:

And of course, things, sometimes don’t go the way that we want when we’re building a home, but dealing with unforeseen challenges. What is the best protocol for managing unforeseen issues and maybe awkward situations between client and professional experts?

Kathy:

I think just being really, really brutally honest, like I think as human beings, nobody really likes conflict, but really, you know, and I think this is just a general statement about communication. It’s just being really, really honest about, you know, the, the situation. So let’s just say if something were to happen and there was an issue with somebody on your project team going to them and saying, hey, listen, I, I see this as an issue. And here’s kind of how I’m feeling and how, what are the solutions that are available to resolve this issue and just having a upfront communication like that and doing it very quickly. You know, there’s no point in sitting around and, you know, moping about it, or just avoiding that conversation because the sooner you have that conversation, the sooner it can actually be resolved

Jen:

And it can be really awkward sometimes, but it’s better to have that open communication than let it fester and then create a lot more problems down the road.

Kathy:

Absolutely. And I will say too, like as a professional, you know, and I kind of mentioned this before, you know, with any construction project, you’re never going to build the same house more than once, and you’re never going to do the same renovation more than once. So at some point, realistically, something is going to come up that maybe you don’t feel quite right about. So I think even just having that expectation, that is a possibility, and it could be something really small where you, you know, you’re like, Oh my goodness, like this is such a huge issue. And then you go to the professional and they’re like, no, no, no, this is actually the way it’s supposed to go. And they can explain that to you and educate you better. But it’s just like having that conversation with them and expressing how you feel. As a professional too, I will say, and I think I speak on behalf of all the industry members, is that if there is an issue we want to know, like we always want our clients to be happy. So we wouldn’t not want our clients sitting there and you know, like you said, festering their emotions and being really upset about something and not communicating that with us.

Mike:

Well one thing we have to remember is not everybody is equal in their ability to be responsive and not everybody communicates in the same way. So if I’m a homeowner and I’m working on a project with somebody and either I feel out of the loop or things are happening, that I’m not aware of, what do I do if I don’t feel I’m being included or I’m not being heard

Kathy:

I think just having a really honest conversation with, you know, whoever. So let’s just say, if it’s your designer or your builder, just literally going up to them and saying, Hey, this is how I feel. And then just having a conversation about.

Mike:

I think ultimately they should be responsive to a homeowner because it’s the homeowner who’s paying them, but you know, we still have to set these expectations. And I think clear communication is really, really important. And I think as a homeowner, if you don’t feel you’re getting the communication you need, it’s your right to demand that you get the communication, you deserve.

Kathy:

Yes, 100%. I agree.

Jen:

And adding to what Mike was saying. And it sometimes happens, going back to maybe the team members and the experts didn’t do anything wrong. It’s just sometimes not the right fit. What happens if sometimes the client and the team members for building the home, maybe their relationship starts to go south. How do you kind of break ways in a positive way? I know that’s a way, a hard way to say it, but you don’t want to, you know, sometimes you’ve got to end a project for a reason and we don’t like to say that it happens.

Kathy:

Yeah, absolutely. And that is a really great question and you’re right. It can happen. I would say, you know, let’s just maybe use an example. So let’s just say, if you were in the middle of construction and for whatever reason, you felt like a little bit off about something, or you weren’t really happy about something with a builder and they weren’t being responsive, perhaps maybe reaching out to somebody else that’s involved in that project team to say, okay, is this issue really like an issue? Or like, I find that often when something like that kind of goes sideways, it can be a case often of just expectations weren’t set properly. So I would say that the first step would be, you know, using our example, maybe reach out to one of the designers on your team and saying, hey, you know, here’s the situation? Is this the way it’s supposed to be? Or is this like actually an issue? And then if it is actually an issue, then at that point, you can start escalating it or, you know, finding some other way to resolve it. If for whatever reason that doesn’t work, then, you know, I’m always a huge believer in trying to resolve issues, even big ones as amicably as possible. I think that’s an everybody’s benefit, but if for whatever reason that doesn’t work, then I would say, if you absolutely need to terminate the relationship, you know, the sooner you do that, the better so that you can kind of move on, but really, you know, and I’m not a lawyer I’m not here to give legal advice, consult a lawyer, disclaimer. But, you know, just making sure that you, terminate that relationship and all kind of work together to have that transition period to whatever your next, consultant is or whoever you need to engage to help you finish the project.

Jen:

If there is one tip, you can leave the listener with today regarding communication to ensure the best project outcome, what it be?

Kathy:

Well, my one tip would be to hire a professional and make sure you just feel comfortable with that professional and the process in itself. And don’t be afraid to ask questions and just be really, really honest with your communication throughout the process.

Mike:

This has been a really awesome session to help wrap up season one of Measure Twice, Cut Once. There are several common threads we keep hearing. The importance of finding a builder and designer you can relate to. Trusting the team you hire to do the job you hired them to do, and to be open and transparent with your team.

Jen:

Thanks for taking the time out, Kathy, out of your busy schedule and, and here in Vancouver, because we know you fly back and forth from Calgary to Vancouver. If people want to get in touch with you, where is the best place.

Kathy:

You can check us out on our website at www.phaseonedesign.ca

Mike:

Kathy, thank you for coming in and joining us. It’s always a pleasure to talk to you, and we’re really glad you were able to share some awesome information with our listeners.

Kathy:

Thanks so much for having me. This was so much fun.

Jen:

Thank you. And thank you for our final episode.

Mike:

My Oh my God. How did that happen so fast?

Jen:

I don’t know. It’s kind of sad.

Mike:

Wasn’t it just August, like a couple hours ago?

Jen:

I don’t know. Well, anyways, let’s wrap this up. This has been Measure Twice, Cut Once the podcast from HAVAN, the Homebuilders Association Vancouver. Again, thank you so much, Kathy. And to all our guests for joining us on this journey.

Mike:

For notes and links to everything mentioned on today’s episode, go to www.havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce

Jen:

Follow us and review us to help empower homeowners like yourself to make the right decision the first time and automatically by doing so you’ll be entered to win a gas barbecue courtesy of our friends at Fortis BC. The contest closes soon though. November 30th at 5:00 PM Pacific standard time. So don’t delay.

Mike:

And here’s a tip because you definitely want to win that awesome barbecue by following and liking each episode and each time you share with your family and your friends and anyone else you know who might be thinking about a project in the future, you increase your chances of winning.

Jen:

The winner is going to be posted on HAVAN’s Instagram page at HAVANofficial on December 4th

Mike:

We’ll back with Season Two, talking about more awesome housing topics, including laneway homes, multi-generational living, aging in place and much, much more.

Jen:

I can’t wait, bye for now.

Mike:

See you soon.