SCREW IT!

Building plans. Construction estimates. Material Selection. Trade quotes. Sarah Gallop, Founder of Sarah Gallop Design Inc breaks down the importance of the pre-construction planning stage, so you don’t get screwed down the line!

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As the founder of SGDI, Sarah has an unwavering passion for Interior Design. From a young age, it was evident that she would need to create; she designed her first house at the age of twelve and never looked back.

After working her way through Marketing and Business Management at Kwantlen University College she found her way to Art Direction at Vancouver Film School. She loved creating for movies, but felt somewhat disheartened when her creations were dismantled after filming was complete. She knew she needed a more permanent backdrop for her designs and went on to study Interior Design at the British Columbia Institute of Technology. She had come full circle and realized that this was ‘it’ for her. She won an award upon graduation and dove right into the design world.

Sarah started her career in Commercial Design, but quickly remembered her true love was in designing homes. She loves working with homeowners and uncovering things that will truly make their spaces unique. She is experienced in designing custom spaces of any size, from 1000 sqft to over 15,000 sqft. She has designed many homes in all reaches of the Vancouver/Lower Mainland area, but has also designed homes across Canada, the USA, and Asia.

Over the years Sarah has designed many award-winning spaces and continues to do so with her team at SGDI. Since 2009 the team has won many CHBABC Georgie Awards, GHVBA Ovation Awards, IDIBC Shine Awards, and NKBABC Awards.

Sarah has been a regular contributing writer for Black Press and Glacier Media and a featured columnist for Westcoast Homes + Design magazine. She has presented on the Main Stage at the BC Home + Garden Show and the Vancouver Fall Home Show. Sarah has also appeared on Global TV, CTV, and CBC Radio.

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Jen:

Welcome to Measure Twice, Cut Once the podcast from HAVAN, the Homebuilders Association Vancouver.

Mike:

From code to closets,

Jen:

safety to skylights,

Mike:

we’ll take you behind the walls and all things, home building and renovation

Jen:

and give you the ins and outs from the experts on what you should know,

Mike:

in plain language,

Jen:

about home building design and renovation.

Mike:

I’m Mike Friedman,

Jen:

and I’m Jennifer Lee. Now that you’re here, why not hit subscribe? And you’ll never miss an episode.

Mike:

And don’t forget to share with your family, friends or anyone else, you know, who might be thinking of a project in their home now or in the future. Hey Jen, how are you today?

Jen:

I’m great. Mike, how are you?

Mike:

I’m awesome. And I’m thinking it’s time to start talking about the construction phase.

Jen:

Hold on. It’s too soon.

Mike:

Listen. So far this season, we’ve talked about a lot of things. We’ve talked about, finding a builder, bringing your dream team together to preplan your build or renovation. We’ve also talked about the benefits of high performance homes and the importance of interior design. So I’m thinking by now we must be ready to pick up some tools.

Jen:

Well, what I’ve learned from working with my brother and dad is, there still is a lot of planning to be done. Yes, we’ve been planning so far, but now we have to take the quotes and secure accurate estimates to stay on budget and to make sure that we’ve got everything lined up so permitting passes with the least amount of hiccups.

Mike:

Oh yeah. Permits. I remember those. I hadn’t really thought about those, but I think that’s something really, really important to talk about so people understand that.

Jen:

Oh, there’s so much to think about when you’re wanting to build a house. And that is why we are bringing in the experts to talk to us through what we need to know before we start building or renovating.

Mike:

Oh, you’re absolutely right. And if there’s, would’ve been one thread of knowledge throughout this entire season, so far, it’s the importance of taking the time upfront to properly plan.

Jen:

Yeah. And I’m excited because we are very fortunate to have Sarah Gallop, founder of Sarah Gallop Design Inc in the studio today. Sarah is designed many award winning spaces since founding Sarah Gallop Design Inc in 2009 and is also a regular contributing writer for Black Press and Glacier Media and a feature columnist for Westcoast Homes and Design Magazine. She has presented on the main stage of the BC Home and Garden Show and the Vancouver Fall Home Show and has also appeared on Global TV, CTV and CBC Radio. What an accomplished woman. And also, I have to say if you’re at an award show, best table to sit at her team is so much fun. Welcome, Sarah.

Sarah:

Thanks guys. So nice to be here.

Mike:

Hey Sarah, super nice to meet you. I’ve actually seen you at a number of home shows when I worked in the HAVAN booth and things like that. And I actually work with a number of the builders that you work with as well. So it’s great to finally meet you in person and put a face to the name that’s doing all these wonderful designs and we’re really grateful for the opportunity to have you in studio today.

Jen:

Hi Sarah. I’ve known you and Rob for quite a while now. And my brother and I have, like I said, I’ve been at events and different things with you guys. You guys have such a great story because you also work together as a couple, which I think is amazing. Can you tell us how you guys started Sarah Gallop Design Inc way back and how you got into being an interior designer?

Sarah:

Yeah, way back 2009. I started the company. I was already working in the industry at the time, but I sort of saw some better ways to do some things. I sort of wanted to venture out on my own. And so I did that. And Rob joined about two years later. He was still working behind the scenes with me while he was working in an accounting firm. But he kind of came on board full time, I think it was 2011. And we’ve been doing it ever since. It’s kind of crazy. It’s a little weird working with your spouse, but it’s also if it works, the best thing ever.

Jen:

You’re a power couple. I love it. The design power couple.

Sarah:

Rob says, he’s like, I’ll do anything but design. I’m like, yeah, that’s best to leave to me.

Mike:

Oh, that sounds familiar. And let’s talk about pre-construction planning and we’re going to review the design team today. Now, I know your company is a design firm and they’re also design build firms out there. So it might be kind of confusing for somebody who’s not in this business and doing this on a regular basis. Can you talk a little about your philosophy on design versus design build firms? Because Joshua from Maestro Development walked us through the difference from a builder’s perspective, but we would love to hear what you think about it from a designer’s person.

Sarah:

Yeah, I can actually speak to both parts of that. When I started before I was starting my own firm, I was working in design built. It’s a different model. I mean there’s pros and cons to both. I think it’s a matter of sort of clients doing the research and seeing what they’re most comfortable with. The thing that I found really great about independent design, which is what we do, is that we’re able to advocate for our clients. So it’s a little bit different. We still want to progress the pre-construction phase with a builder. We want to work for the client. We want to always look out for their best interest and advise them independently of influence that a builder might have over us if we were working for them directly.

Jen:

And I know we get this question all the time as a builder, a lot of people will be like, well, what’s the difference between an interior designer and an architect, and do I need both? My answer to that is we love it when you have both. We don’t like it when you just have one or the other when you’re doing a new build, because we love working as a team. But can you tell us a little bit about what is the difference between an architect and interior designer for someone that might not know?

Sarah:

Yeah. I mean, the architect is going to be doing the structure, like the box that you’re going to build within. And so they’ll do your plans, your permit set and coordinate potentially consultants as needed. So you might have like arborist and geo-tech and all these other people that are required to get your building permit. An interior designer sort of going to take it from where the architect leaves off. And for single family, you actually don’t have to have an architect. You could have a house designer or a drafts person or somebody else doing up your plans, but you do need the plans to be able to get the permit. So an interior designer takes it from where the box is left off and they’ll fill the box. So they’ll work with you on your kitchen design, your bathrooms, your materials, fixtures, all those other details that sort of make a house, a home.

Mike:

You know, earlier this week we were chatting a little bit and you said something that really stuck out and that is that it doesn’t have to cost more to be better. And I think that’s a really powerful statement. It has to do with the planning more than anything else. And can you speak to this a little bit more and sort of expand on this thinking so people really understand?

Sarah:

Yeah. I think ultimately everything that we do in design comes down to planning and, you know, we’ve, we’ve been doing this for such a long time that we know smart to accomplish the same sort of goals. And you know, it is true that you don’t have to necessarily spend more money for it to be better. It just needs to be thought through really well. And we need to understand the end user and how they’re going to function in the home and you know, how they live and who’s there. And, you know, they have to be comfortable enough to be able to share those things with us because otherwise we’re just not going to be, we’re not going to learn enough to be able to offer suggestions that that are really going to enhance their lives.

Jen:

And that’s the thing you really want to make sure that your client is open with you, because like you said, you’re going to give them a better design if they tell you what they want,

Sarah:

We have to know the questions to ask. So that’s part of what our job is, is to get that information out of them because a lot of the times they’ll share some things, but that’s just scratching the surface. And so we need to ask those deeper questions. And I say to clients often, you know, I have to know weird things about you and it’s okay. There’s no judgment here. We just want to know how you shower and, you know, are there more than one person in there? And like, I’m not, there’s nothing more to it than I just want to know how to service you better so that when you are doing whatever you’re doing, that you’re going to have the best experience with it. You know, that’s part of what, you know, having an experienced designer help you through that process and ask the questions because homeowners, as much as they might be informed homeowners, they still know parts of what they need to be looking at. And I find that, you know, our job is to make sure that they don’t have regret when everything is done. And so we need to get that information out of them and sometimes they’re not comfortable sharing and, and when you kind of get to know them a little bit better than these things just start falling out of them. And, you know, some, sometimes it’s more than what we need to know, but that’s okay too.

Jen:

You’ve also talked Sarah about the design and the architectural process as looking down the line with a holistic approach versus a linear approach. What do you mean by this?

Sarah:

I always advise people to, to think big picture when they’re, especially when they’re renovating, you know, it obviously happens when they’re building, because they’re going to look at all aspects of the home, but when people renovate sometimes they’re like, well, I just want to do my main floor. I was like, okay, that’s great. We can certainly talk about that and think about what you might want for that. What does this house look like when you’ve, when you’ve done everything that you want to do to it? You know, the, what are those things down the road was like. Well, actually I also really don’t like the way the bathrooms working and maybe don’t, you know, in a couple of years, we’re thinking we might do this thing outside. Well, that’s cool. Let’s think about those things on a high level now, because there may be some aspects of that, that we can plan for and incorporate into this first phase so that we’re ready for that one so that we’re not undoing things we’ve just done, or we’re not limiting things that could be done down the road because of what you’ve done in this phase. So the big picture is so important to think about. And you know, we’re not asking those questions to force people to do more than what they want to do in this first phase, but it’s just to be better planned and set up for those future things

Mike:

There are interior design plans, there’s construction plans. And to people that might be a little bit overwhelming to, can you help us understand what the difference is between each of these two types of plans,

Sarah:

Structured plans or the architectural plans would be the ones that get you your permit. So that’s the one that goes into city, the engineers sign off on them. Again, there might be other consultants that are required. Those are the ones that the contractor is going to build off of, but that only gives you, you know, honestly, not even half the information it’s the shell, right? And then the interior design plans are the rest of it. So everything inside the box and the other part of interiors that is a really, really important deliverable is the specifications. And what are all those materials that are going in? As far as the drawings, the interior drawings show elevations, they’ll show reflected ceiling plans, lighting like electrical, finished plans, all these different items that give the trades more information to be able to actually price it. Because if you were to just give a contractor or a subcontractor, a set of architectural drawings and say like, Oh yeah, price, price, this out hardwood guy. He’s going to be like, okay, well, I don’t know, I know how much space, but I don’t know anything else about what it is that you want. So, the interior design gives a lot more information that is needed to price things out properly.

Jen:

And speaking of pricing, I know this is a question a lot of interior designers get because I talked to them about it, but a lot of people will be like, well, why do I need to pick the bathroom faucet for the master bathroom like 12 months in advance?

Sarah:

Again, it’s to allows the builders to plan out. And the rough ins for some of those things happen very early on and everything affects everything else in construction, which obviously affects design. So when we can give the contractor a complete picture of what is going in, the finished product is going to be so much more refined and better thought through, and they also can price it out. They can order it in advance. I mean, some product might take, you know, three or four months to come in. And so if you’re picking that two weeks before you need it, you’re not going to have it in time. And then everything gets delayed. Right. So the better you can plan it out the better.

Jen:

For sure.

Jen:

Yeah. And the contractor likes it too, when you plan things out because, you know, we want to know what’s going on.

Sarah:

Yeah, that’s the only way they can price it out properly. Otherwise you’re looking at allowances and allowances are not going to be the actual cost of the project. I mean, I think that when people start getting into their selections, they realize that, oh, okay, well, what I want, that’s a number that gives me something, but it’s not necessarily the thing that I want. If that happens across the board on every category it’s like all of a sudden you’re, you know, $500,000 renovation is like $700,000 and you need to start looking at scope adjustments to make that work, right? So, there’s, there’s a lot to it. It keeps, it keeps the homeowners in control the earlier they can get organized.

Mike:

And I think there’s another benefit to homeowners as well. And I see this in my end of things, a lot where people are bringing at the very end of the project. So a homeowner has to make a decision in a relatively fast amount of time. And there’s regrets that go with that and lack of preparedness. So I think the other great thing about working with someone like yourself and planning well ahead is it’s a comfortable decision making process. It’s not like you have to make a decision by today. You have time to look and think and process that being said, sometimes people make choices and things, change. Styles, change technology changes, or people simply regret the choices they’ve made. How do we keep our homeowners on course, and how do we deal with changes that need to be made midway through the process?

Sarah:

I mean, planning it out doesn’t mean that people can’t make change because items can go discontinued new things can come out. It gives you a reference point. It gives them point in time where they can say, okay, well I chose this thing and it was $500 and everything was based on this, these items I chose. And if I, if I saw a spectacular light fixture, six months later that I really want to go with, it’s like that one’s $5,000. The one that was in the budget was $3,500. I know that I’m spending $1,500 more. And I know the lead time. Does the lead time work? There is still opportunity for them to make changes and refinements, but they have a baseline to work off of when they’ve picked those things in advance. I can go back and say like, hey, you know what? These things that you were really wanting to do, we can accomplish that like this instead. And you know, that is compromise that you’re willing to make, or what if we were to do this? Or what if we split this part off as a separate project? So I mean, yeah I’ve had clients that, the budgets end up not where they want to be, just because, you know, they get carried away and excited as they go through. And it’s a matter of like bringing it back to reality. But because they’re doing this in advance, they’re not committed to spending that money that they don’t want to spend. So they can make changes to get it where they’re comfortable before anybody rips their house apart.

Jen:

Like you’ve said before, in other discussions we’ve had, it’s easier to move a wall on paper than move a physical wall when it’s already built.

Sarah:

A hundred percent. I’m just trying to think. We use this kind of analogy. It’s like, let’s say it’s a hundred bucks to change it on paper and it’s a thousand bucks to change it in construction, and it might be like 10,000 to change it after. So spend more time working on paper, spend more time in planning to be really, really sure. And then you’re not going to have regret and as much as it takes time and it takes money, it’s a lot less to get it right there than it is to kind of have to change things later.

Mike:

Gosh, I wish I had spoken to you when I did my renovation. I have a quick question about budget, and this is for someone who’s sitting at home going, what comes next? I maybe do I do this myself or engage a professional like yourself. For me as a homeowner going and sourcing a lot of the finishing materials and things like that versus working with someone like you who has relationships with suppliers, is there a benefit to working with someone like you? A cost benefit?

Sarah:

Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, we have trade accounts with pretty much every supplier there is out there. And those discounts do get passed along to our clients. We do that also with the builders that we work with. If they don’t have an account, let’s say that we had to source something super obscure that they’re like, Oh, I don’t have an account with that person, and we have that account, they can just buy on our account if they need to, to get that. So they don’t have to go through and set that up. If it’s like a one-off thing that they’re like I’m never ever going to buy from this guy again, because it’s this like random thing that this specific client wants, we can still get that. So, our buying power is pretty significant. We do a lot of projects in a year and that two reasons, one, we do a lot of volume and two, we’re influencing what the selections are. So, the suppliers are very incentivised to make it good for our clients.

Mike:

I want to bring up an important point. You, you touched upon this earlier. You’ve talked about working collectively with a team. Now we’ve done tons of time doing the planning process and even the best made plans, aren’t going to work if they’re not executed properly. So I want to talk to you today about communication because we have so many different fingers in the pot. We have a designer, a builder, an architect, a trades, and oh yeah me as the homeowner in the middle trying to figure out all this stuff I want. Who do you speak to about what and how do you set a proper communication channels with the right people so that nothing gets missed and none of the important details that we spent so long planning for are lost?

Sarah:

It depends on what stage you’re at. So in pre-construction your lead is your designer and you go to your designer and your contractor is there in more of a support role. When you hit construction, it flips. So the contractor is then the lead and the designer is in the support role. It’s best to just include everybody so that whoever is sort of the most relevant to answer the conversation. We’ll just jump in as they need to. But I totally see it like that. It’s lead in support and then flips as soon as you hit construction.

Jen:

Because there are so many people working on your project, me as the client, this is the most important question I want to know is the money I’m giving out for my project who holds all that money?

Sarah:

In pre-construction and design you would have a contractor or the designer, and you’d be billed monthly or whatever it might be for that. And in construction you’re again the main point is with the contractor and they’re the ones that are invoicing you for progress, and as things are progressing, and the money would go to them, like their payments would go to them and they would disperse to the sub-trades as, as needed.

Jen:

I knew the answer to that one because we are the builder and we are the holder. I know. It was a trick question, but important for people that aren’t in the industry to know, because that’s a question of like, I’m giving this money, who’s it going to, and is it getting dispersed?

Mike:

Great information so far really loved the dialogue we have going, but we are going to have to take a short break. We’re going to take a quick break to thank our podcast partners. We’ll be back in about 30 seconds

Speaker 3:

Measure Twice, Cut Once is a new podcast. And we’re grateful for the support from our podcast partners, BC Hydro, and FortisBC. Their support helps us share expert knowledge like we’re hearing today from Sarah to help homeowners design, build and renovate right the first time.

Mike:

And if you’re enjoying this podcast, please like follow or share with your family and friends. The more followers we have, the better chance more people will find our podcast. And this information is gold. I only wish I knew what I’m learning today from Sarah when I renovated my home.

Speaker 3:

And you’re going to like this Mike because by liking and sharing us, you’ll be entered for a chance to win a Napoleon Prestige P 500 stainless steel, natural gas, barbecue from our friends at FortisBC.

Mike:

Like and share us and you will win. Think positive thoughts. Manifest great things. You’re going to get a brand new barbecue. And it is an amazing barbecue and is valued at over a thousand dollars, but enough about barbecue, let’s get back to Sarah.

Jen:

Okay. So we’ve talked about the benefits of planning and from my background at Euro Canadian, I know the of creating accurate estimates from the plans and quotes. Who deals with the design and construction estimates?

Sarah:

Well, our job as the designer is to prep all the information. It’s like the Lego instructions, we often refer to it as.

Jen:

I love that.

Sarah:

And the Lego instructions to build the house. And then the contractor, the general contractor or builder would procure all the quotes from all of the sub-trades as needed. So they would put that information out to all of their people and the numbers would come back into them. They would put together that final budget, that’s including the subtract quotes materials and the labor of their, their team, and then put that to the client.

Mike:

So once you’ve got these quotes back, who’s responsible from there who chooses which quotes are the right ones?

Sarah:

Generally the contractor would do that in conjunction with the homeowner. They’ll advise them on pros and cons of certain guys. And they’ll look at the numbers and sort of make decisions on that. The design team is usually not that involved in who’s doing the actual installation of the products. The products themselves would be selected by our teams and that would be in the specification document. So they would be obtaining quotes from the suppliers that we had indicated.

Jen:

And I know we’ve talked before and you’ve talked about the matchmaking is part of the process is making sure that you basically get the right person for the project.

Sarah:

Yeah. I mean, from a construction point of view, you need to go with somebody that you’re comfortable with. When we’re asked by a client, who you know, who should I use? How do I, pick it? It is very much a matchmaking and we’ve spent a little bit of time with them at that point to sort of feel them out and see who we think might be a good fit for them. And lots of things go into that, that matchmaking and sort of determining who we think is good for them, but ultimately it’s the client’s decision to pick someone that they’re comfortable with. A lot of them do go on our recommendations. We can design a beautiful plan and if it’s not done properly in the construction side, it’s still not going to, you know, they’re not going to get what they really want.

Jen:

Going back to your Lego analogy. It’s like, you really want those bricks to fit and legal pieces fit together. So you want the proper builders that work together with interior designers.

Sarah:

Yeah. And somebody who’s proactive and really disciplined in the planning because there are awesome builders. There are great quality builders out there, but if they don’t have that discipline and they’re not willing to put the time into preparing a firm budget early with the design information it’s still not going to be the great experience overall.

Jen:

That’s the one thing that we’ve learned throughout this podcast that every guest has said that we’ve had on, is really finding that right fit between interior designer, sub-trades, contractor everybody.

Mike:

I think you’ve also hit the nail on the head at something else as well. We would work with someone like you, not just because of your expertise and your skill set, but also the type of relationships you bring to the table. You have extensive experience working with the best people in our business. So for my perspective, as a homeowner, if I don’t know who to talk to, I have to rely on the partnerships I’ve created. And really when you think about it, if we’re talking about a big project, almost like a marriage, we’re going to be together for two years. So you have to get the right fit. You have to get the right people. I do want to shift gears a little bit and talk about product selection, because this is when we start to get into the fun part of it. How important is the selection of products to the overall project costs? And how do you deal with decision fatigue? Because all of a sudden, I, as a homeowner have 300 choices and at a certain point I’m inundated by too much information. How do you manage this? So people like me, don’t throw my hands up in the air and go, I don’t care.

Sarah:

That’s exactly why you hire a professional to help you, right? Because a designer’s job is to filter that information for you and just put options in front of you that are going to work for what the overall aesthetic that you want is. So the first thing that we would do on the interior side is work with you on a concept. So what kind of direction, like are we going modern? Are we doing a farmhouse? Are we doing traditional? Like, what is the overall high level look and feel going to be? And then we will just show you things that will get you there. And they will be at varying price points. And we can talk about pros and cons of certain materials and fixtures and everything else. A good part of what we do is educating our clients on all of those things so that they can make an informed decision. Again, part of the questions and getting all that information out of them is to give them things that make sense. And we’re not going to, if they have little kids that are going to have green toothpaste, we’re not going to show them a marble countertop like that because it doesn’t make sense for the use. You know, the way that we do our process with our firm is we present everything at once. And so it’s a lot easier I find for homeowners to be able to make decisions when they can picture the whole space. It’s hard to go into a tile show room or a lighting showroom and look at 800 things and be like, how do I even possibly narrow down what I might want. that is very overwhelming. Our clients don’t do that. They come to us, we present one or two or three options for them based on that aesthetic that they’ve indicated that they want. And it’s a very safe place for making decisions.

Jen:

You know, it comes down to being prepared, like you said, and we’ve been talking this whole time about the planning process, the more you’re prepared, the less likely it’s going to cost you more money. And at the same time, you’re going to hopefully save time as well and get things done on time. And as we always say on budget,

Sarah:

Yeah. I mean, I think the decisions come easy once you start making a couple. Honestly, we go around this table and we show them, here’s your hardwood floor. Now that we’ve got that, then the millwork it’s like, okay, well, these two, now that you’ve picked this one, don’t go. So this one is the one that would make the most sense with this. When they potentially come in or they even think about how many decisions there are. When they look at a specification document, they’re like, Oh my gosh, it’s like 70 pages or a hundred pages of decisions. How am I possibly going to get there? It’s like, honestly, it’s not hard, it’s easy. Once you get started, you just need to set the direction. And then everything relates back to that. Does this decision work with what the concept was? Yes or no?

Mike:

We recommend that people plan to a budget or do you recommend people plan for everything they want, and then you help them find substitutions that will allow them conform to a budget. Like where should I start, if I’m planning something?

Sarah:

I think you need to have some idea for where you’re comfortable with budget. But I also think that one of the conversations that we have very early on with people is, okay, you want to do this and this and this. What do you think that might cost? Because a lot of people just don’t know, expectation might be unrealistic. And so part of what we’d go through before we even sign a client would be okay, well, this type of project that you’re talking about might be in this sort of range. You know, we do this every day and we’ve seen lots of projects with lots of budgets, with lots of contractors and we can kind of again, educate them on what it might be. And then if that’s not where they want to be, then okay, let’s look at your priorities and come up with a scope that’s maybe more realistic with what you want to spend. And maybe those other pieces are future phases. And we’re planning for those down the road with our big picture thought, and there’s lots of ways to accomplish it. And, it has to be in the ballpark. The scope and the budget have to be somewhat in line. Otherwise they’re just going to be disappointed.

Jen:

So Sarah, how much difference is it between design trend in client preference?

Sarah:

We don’t follow the trends so much. We more try to set the trends. We were talking about that before about, you know, what we’re designing now is what you’re going to see in magazines two, three years from now. Right? And so it’s like, we don’t want to show what you’re seeing now. That’s not the point. That’s going to be out of date by the time we get to it or by the time it gets installed. And so we were always looking forward – way forward. And the other thing that’s interesting about it too, is people will ask me like, Oh, well, what are the trends like? Well, I can tell you what we’re working on with our clients right now. And that will be a trend later. And so that’s the one thing that I find when homeowners do their own projects and they don’t have design help. It’s like, they’re looking at what’s current today and not what’s current in two or three years. And so they’re going, those houses will be out of date before they even finish. They’re behind the times by not engaging somebody who knows what the future looks like.

Jen:

Great. What is the responsibility of the homeowner at the pre-construction stage? Like what questions should they be asking the team?

Sarah:

A big question that comes up often actually is structure of contracts. How do people work? I mean, I shared how our design team works. That doesn’t mean that every design team works like that. So I think that when they’re interviewing professionals, they need to understand how that company works, what the communication is like, what’s the billing, like? What’s the structure of the contract, all these different components, when you know what you’re getting into before you get into it, you’re making a very conscious decision to move forward versus sort of going in blindly and not really knowing. And then the expectations misaligned and, you know, someone’s going to get disappointed. So asking those questions upfront and, and being really clear. And I, you know, I have people ask me often, you know, like, Oh, should I go cost plus? Or should I go fixed fee? I’m like, well, there’s pros and cons to both. And we talk through what those are. And then, you know, again, it doesn’t matter to me. I have clients that do it both ways. I’ve done it both ways myself.

Jen:

Yeah. We definitely talked about that a few episodes back with Matt Senf and we were talking about the difference between fixed price and cost plus for anyone that wants to go back and listen to find out the difference of those.

Mike:

You should be going back and listening to them on a regular basis anyway,

Sarah:

on repeat all the time.

Mike:

Absolutely

Jen:

Answer all your questions.

Mike:

Well, I have a question for you for homeowners preparing to undertake a project of this scope. So I’ve talked about this in the past. When I did my renovation ah, nobody told me you should leave the house for three months while it’s happening. We tried to live there.

Jen:

Oh wrong decision.

Mike:

And I would absolutely choose capping my own teeth over doing that again. It wasn’t a lot of fun and I wish I had the relationships with HAVAN members that I have now. Let’s talk a little about helping that homeowner avoid some of the mistakes that I made. Let’s talk about how to prepare for what’s about to happen. Whether they’re going to stay in the old home, whether they’re going to be in the home where the renos happening, help us prepare a homeowner to avoid stress later, to make sure it’s a smooth process. What advice do you have for people?

Sarah:

I think it depends very much on the scope of the project. So when I do a consultation with somebody and go up to their place and talk about what they’re going to do for the renovation, and we talk about logistics. Maybe there’s a suite in the home and they can actually stay there, but it depends. Do they work in the house? Do they have animals? Like, are the kids there, all those things will factor into it. I say to people, I’m like, well for sanity, you know, you might want to be elsewhere. I show them pictures and the outline. I’ve done it myself. I’ve lived through renovations, I’m living through one right now, like a total crazy person, but it’s a matter of again, setting that expectation so that people know what they’re getting into. So for some people, depending on their life situation, it might be fine to live through a renovation. For most people it’s not that fun. And I think that, again, the expectation out there might be, I have people say this to me all the time. Like, they’re Oh, well, but it’ll just be like a week or two where the kitchen’s not operational. I’m like, no, no, that’s actually really not how it works. I mean, they do demo at the beginning and they put it back together at the end. And there are months of you not having bathrooms or kitchens or whatever else in between. And if that’s the type of project that you’re thinking about doing, you know, are you okay with doing dishes in your bathtub? Are you okay with takeout? Are you going to barbecue? Like how is this going to work for you on a daily basis? Because you have to know what you’re getting into. Sometimes I’ve had homeowners who were like, no problem. We’re going to stay here. We have to it’s, you know, we can’t afford to be elsewhere, which is like a big point that people make. And my response to that is it’s not always more expensive to move out. Sometimes it’s actually less expensive to move out. And yes, there’s a cost of going somewhere else, a rental or whatever it might be. But you have to think about the construction guys every single day, cleaning up that site to make sure to save for you. And, and maybe they, the drywaller wants to come at 11:00 PM to just throw that extra coat of mud on, because that’s when it’s ready. It’s like he can’t do that if you’re there. So the timing can take longer. It’s obviously disruptive to your overall life. So those, those are all things to think about when you’re contemplating living, living in the house during a renovation,

Jen:

I’m a child of a builder and I grew up in renovations for my whole life. So I don’t know how my mother did it, but they’re still together. Anyways, do you have just wrapping up here, do you have like a specific example that, you know, the pre construction phase went really well and like it’s positive between you and the whole team?

Sarah:

Actually they usually go really well. I mean, I would say probably, you know, I have fewer examples of them going poorly than I have of them going well. You know, I think that the biggest thing to success is again, having a team that is supportive of each other, and that understands that we’re all here for the common goal of getting that homeowner into that house for the best that they can. But I’ve seen the flip side of it too, where homeowners have called us late in the game. They’ve started a renovation with maybe without that planning and have asked us to sort of nine one, one come in and help them. And so I I’ve seen, I’ve seen what the flip side of it does, and that’s why I advocate so strongly for getting organized and planning it out. At the end of the day, I feel strongly that it keeps the homeowners in control. Nobody wants to be that runaway renovation example that you hear about like nobody wants that.

Jen:

No, when you don’t want to be that run runaway renovation ever.

Mike:

Take it from me. you don’t want to be that guy.

Sarah:

And the thing is, I’m so glad that you guys have this podcast happening, because I think that there are a lot of people who just think that’s how renovations are

Speaker 3:

They’ve been watching too much HGTV

Sarah:

There’s too much HGTV and all this drama around like, well, no, that’s just the way renovations, that’s just a renovation. That is a hundred percent not the case. You can plan a renovation out perfectly and have it executed perfectly and be like how was this reality? And it is, you just have to get the right team involved and plan it.

Mike:

Well, this has been a really eye-opening conversation in the pre-construction phase and a very necessary one. We talked about a lot of different things, including the different approaches, working with an independent professional versus a design build team; planning with the designer in a safe space, as you, pre-screened all the materials; taking a holistic approach versus linear saves time and money. And when things happen and they will, if you have a strong team of professionals working together, there will always be solutions. And of course the value in pre-planning to secure, accurate estimates, knowing it’s okay to choose that faucet 18 months ahead of time and designers plan ahead of trends. So if you could offer us one last piece of advice, what would it be?

Sarah:

My biggest takeaway is always, just plan it before you start. Before you let anybody start construction on your new house, or you let anybody rip apart your old house, figure out what you’re doing and have a budget that actually is based on selections, because if it’s based in allowances, it means nothing.

Jen:

Thank you so much for coming in Sarah today. And it was nice to see you again. Thinking about all the benefits of working with a designer and taking the time to plan pre-construction has really been empowering. If people want to get in touch with you, where do they go?

Sarah:

The best place would be probably through our website, Sarahgallop.com. We’re also Instagram, Facebook, you know, all the usual channels.

Jen:

There we go.

Mike:

Hey, thanks so much, Sarah. I feel so much better prepared to speak to our next guest Graeme of My House Design Build Team as he walks us through the construction phase.

Jen:

Thank you so much, Sarah. This has been Measure Twice, Cut Once the podcast from HAVAN, the Homebuilders Association Vancouver. Thanks for joining us today.

Mike:

For notes and links to everything mentioned on today’s episode, go to havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce

Jen:

Follow us and review us to help empower homeowners like yourself to make the right decision the first time and automatically by doing so you’ll be entered to win a gas barbecue courtesy of our friends at FortisBC.