Episode 68: Reno & Build Fundamentals with special guest Bryan Baeumler

Bryan Baeumler of HGTV fame and Graeme Huguet of My House Design/Build Team are back talking to Mike and Jennifer-Lee about keeping homebuilding and renovations real; focusing on what is important to ensure your investment is protected and the home you build can stand the test of time. Tune in now!

Listen to “Ep 68: Reno & Build Fundamentals with special guest Bryan Baeumler” on Spreaker.

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Co-Host, podcast editor: Jennifer-Lee Gunson: jPod Creations
Co-Host, Mike Freedman, AI Technology & Design
Production: Rami Films
Distributed by Black Press Media: Today in BC.

Bryan Baeumler

Bryan is a Canadian television host on several HGTV/HGTV Canada shows. Learning the trade from his father, an aircraft engineer, Baeumler spent his childhood summers constructing his family’s cottage. At 14, Baeumler opened his own handyman business doing odd jobs for neighbors. He received his B.A. in Political Science and Business from the University of Western Ontario in 1996. After working as a builder, he founded a construction company, which became Baeumler Quality Construction and Renovations Inc., of which he is president and CEO. In 2011, Baeumler launched Baeumler Approved, a website that aids homeowners connect with home-service companies in Canada. Baeumler became the spokesperson of HeyBryan, a peer-to-peer mobile marketplace app that connects homeowners with home-service providers, in 2018. He has won a Gemini Award for his hosting and has published a book on home renovations. Bryan In 2017 Bryan and his wife Sarah bought a defunct abandoned beachfront resort on South Andros, Bahamas, and renovated it into a new sustainable luxury resort, Caerula Mar Club, that opened in December 2019, that they own and operate.

Graeme Huguet

Founder & General Manager, My House Design/Build Team

If you had told Graeme that he’d be in the construction business 30 years ago, he might have laughed at you.

Born in Burnaby and majoring in acting, design, directing, business, and fine arts, from a young age Graeme has always had a creative “make things happen” approach to life.

The segue way into construction came from designing for theatre and television granted an opportunity to design in “real life”. He then saw a need within the industry to create a more holistic design and build client first approach that did things above and beyond what was expected. It was in this creative and non conventional approach that My House Design/Build Team was formed.

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MTCO Ep 68 Bryan Baeumler + Graeme Huguet Transcript

Mike

0:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to Measure Twice, Cut Once. I’m Mike and I’m learning so much I’m almost moderately dangerous.

• Jennifer Lee

0:09

And I’m Jennifer Lee, here to keep Mike from knocking out some walls to make space for his growing family, literally.

• Mike

0:14

Wait, wait, my family’s growing? You want to tell me about this?

• Jennifer Lee

0:18

Well, I don’t know, maybe I’ll tell you about Pam’s got a secret for you, but anyway.

• Mike

0:23

Here at Measure Twice, Cut Once, we’re talking high performance building, designer trends, breaking down housing regulations, discovering high performance building solutions.

• Jennifer Lee

0:31

We’re asking the questions about everything and anything to do with homes.

• Mike

0:35

We want to help you build it right, design it right, and do it right the first time.

• Jennifer Lee

0:39

So, let’s get to it.

• Mike

0:40

Join us for Measure Twice, Cut Once, because we all know twice is too much work. And we’re especially excited today to welcome two old friends back into the studio. Of course, we’re talking about Graeme, we’re talking about Bryan. I don’t think either of them need any introduction, but we probably should give them.

• Jennifer Lee

0:56

Give them a few words.

• Mike

0:57

Yeah, you know. All right, so let’s start with Graeme. Graeme is local here, and any of you who’ve watched our episodes before are very familiar with his work. He is the founder and general manager of My House Design Build Team. He’s received over 100 industry-related awards, including BC Georgie Finalist, Custom Home Builder of the Year, that’s no small feat, Best Customer Satisfaction, Renovator of the Year for like what, how many years now? Like all of them, pretty much?

• Graeme Huguet

1:28

Seven in a row.

• Mike

1:30

Seven in a row.

• Jennifer-Lee

1:31

He’s just a big deal, Mike.

• Mike

1:32

Just a big deal. So that’s the best part about going to the Haven Awards, it’s like every third one is like, oh, there’s Graeme again, which is great. We love to see you getting that recognition. So, and of course, Bryan needs very little introduction. He’s very well known for his work on television.

• Mike

1:44

By TV, we mean HGTV and Stack TV.

• Bryan

1:46

I don’t have any words. Well, I doubt that’s true.

• Mike

1:50

I guess the work speaks for itself. But here’s the thing about him. Before he was on TV and before he was who you know him for now, he was a handyman and a businessperson first and foremost. And what he was able to do was translate that passion, that love for what he does, into a series of shows about home renovations in Canada and the U.S., as well as a hotel renovation in the Bahamas. And I think the thing we love most about him is he tells it like it actually is. He’s not leading us on to think we can finish my house in like a weekend for $10,000.

• Bryan

2:19

I do self-edit, however, yes.

• Mike

2:23

So welcome both.

• Jennifer Lee
• Bryan

2:25

Thank you.

• Graeme

2:26

Good to be here.

• Mike

2:27

So, we always start with this question with our returning guests. What’s new? What’s new and exciting?

• Bryan

2:32

Graeme, you want to start?

• Graeme

2:33

Well, I think here in the Greater Vancouver area and B.C., we have lots of people doing a lot of renovations and home improvements as they’re realizing perhaps, they need to hang on to what they have. A lot of people are making changes for their homes for family members like parents are having the kids return home or parents are moving in with the kids. Lots of multi-generational people are looking for ways to add more space, have another suite, maybe a laneway, maybe turn their property into a fourplex or a sixplex. So, there’s lots of changes in the marketplace from a construction and a renovation perspective. Awesome, so we’re talking locally now we’re talking a little bit further away for you.

• Bryan

3:16

A little farther afield.

• Mike

3:18

Absolutely, but you’re doing all sorts of really cool stuff. What’s new and exciting in your world?

• Jennifer Lee

3:21

Any more resorts?

• Bryan

3:23

Yeah, there may be. I mean our construction development firm in Ontario has continued to grow. We’re doing some multifamily and multi-homes and rental and for sale. And as Graeme mentioned, we’re seeing that trend back east as well. A lot of multi-generational housing now, or multi-family within the same structure, which I think speaks to this housing crisis and the increase in costs and the fact that now over 80% of our young Canadians under 40 have given up on home ownership. And these are some of the ways to combat that. We’ve, down south, we’ve picked up another property hotel in Isla Morada in the Florida Keys that is currently under renovation. And we’re putting together a 600-acre development deal and a third hotel in the Bahamas as well. So, there’s quite a there’s a few things happening and we’re filming this under a new show called building Baeumler Which is a little more I think a peek into the office and behind the curtain. It’s more It’s more of the decision-making process on just doing or purchasing a property, how to finance it, how to plan it, how to actually make it happen, and then ultimately how to operate it and expand the brand and go from there. So, we’re adding in a little more. While still edited, there are certain things that we don’t put out there, but this is getting a little more into the weeds.

• Jennifer Lee

4:50

That’s really cool. And I also heard too, you’re also a pilot as well.

• Bryan

4:54

I am.

• Jennifer Lee

4:55

Which I find fascinating because sometimes I do the traffic from a helicopter. So, it’s like anyone that flies, I was like, oh yeah.

• Bryan

5:01

Yeah, I got into that. I mean, I’ve been in aviation my entire life with family business back East. My dad had an aircraft sheet metal company that did repairs to private military and commercial airplanes. And I think he pushed me from a young age to get my license. But when you’re a 16-year-old boy, you’re chasing other dreams and things and what have you and busy. But finally during COVID actually was the time when I realized that the reliance we have on commercial travel between the Island and Florida and Canada, and decided to settle in an airport community with the hangar attached to the home and got the license and started acquiring some aircraft and got more experience.

I think I have 670 hours now in IFR and multi and a few different airplanes. So, it’s convenient, not only convenient, but it’s actually a huge cost savings. We are a family of six and commercial to the island and back is about $6,000 bucks return.

So, in the area, this is my justification to Sarah to continue to buy airplanes. You know, I say, we can get there and back with six of us for under $300. Forget about the capital costs or anything. It’s only fuel.

But it’s a significant savings and it’s a freedom. To be honest, it’s opened up our business opportunities. Because yes, I can be there tomorrow morning, wherever you are. It’s also a lot of fun.

• Jennifer Lee

6:21

Did your family like flying with you?

Are they nervous about it?

• Bryan

6:24

No. I think everybody enjoys it. A few of the kids are taking lessons here and there, and they sleep in the back, so they seem pretty relaxed.

• Mike

6:33

But you know, from a family perspective, okay, I used to travel extensively. You spend so much time in airports waiting, and so you’re saving a ton of time. What that really means for you is you’re busy. You’re doing what you’ve got to do, but when you come home, you’ve got those three extra hours to spend with your family in the time that matters, as opposed to sitting in the airport waiting for other people to try to get on a standby

• Bryan

6:53

And the you know you can you can bring things with you know I can bring my hammer If I want my screwdriver, and I can bring things with me do that through security It’s pretty interesting traveling through FBO’s and some smaller airports I mean there is a security when you’re operating the airplane is not an issue. You know it is funny when you go through some security airports And you’re getting the pat-down and you look at the guy and you’re like I have my hands on the controls of the airplane It doesn’t matter if I have a nail clippers in my bag. I’m actually keeping this thing in the air.

• Bryan

7:27

So that that’s pretty interesting too. Yeah, it’s a huge time saver So what I’m really taking from all this is when you two gentlemen come back on for, yet another appearance and I hope you both will we should really do it on site.

• Jennifer Lee

7:39

In the Bahamas? Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Mike and I need a vacation. I don’t want to travel but it is.

• Mike

7:43

I’m wide open. All right. Well, we’re here to talk about the science and the innovation behind construction and demystifying it. And one of the areas we’d like to talk about is not just the finishes in the home but what’s behind the walls. And that specifically means the foundation, the roof of the home, which tends to be not one of the sexy areas that we end up talking about, but I think we can both agree probably one of the most crucial areas.

Bryan

8:33

Probably the most important reason that we’re, you know, we currently have a housing crisis in Canada is that the value has never been placed on the footings in the roof and the foundation, the operation of the home it’s based on that’s pretty. Let me buy interest or any of that stuff. I want to keep up with the Joneses and the problem is we have become a loot bag disposable. Housing you know and it’s all driven by the consumer when I hear people say all these some builders are building these big you know large, but cheaply built homes, so that’s exactly what the consumer is demanding. And so, we have to change those minds about how we build and where we spend the money and what’s really important. I use an interesting metaphor, you know, when I talk about the housing crisis and the rental crisis and everything, is that we’re a society that lives in a boat with a hole in it and our mentality is to go down and buy a pump. You know, that’s how we look at housing. Oh, it’s inefficient, I’ll throw a panel on the roof. Oh, it’s inefficient. I’ll buy high-performance appliances. Oh, it’s inefficient. Instead of just, build it so you don’t need a furnace, or your furnace rarely has to work. And it’s a very different value proposition, long-term. Well, people don’t build for longevity.

• Jennifer Lee

9:33

And one of the talks that I was listening to when I was researching for this is, you said you can always take out the cosmetic stuff and replace that because it’s easier, but the longevity stuff like the roof, you want it to last a lot longer.

• Bryan

9:45

Yeah, I mean, if you look at it the same way, you know, you have to look at a house, you know, choosing a house or making decisions about a house the same way you look at a spouse. You know, the makeup is great, but every morning it’s on the pillow, you know, or on the rag and you can reapply it. But if you have a stage four illness or a broken bone or you know something like that What’s what becomes more important the makeup is not the important part. It’s the built-in value, the longevity the health you know the performance of that of that home or of that person that are important.

• Jennifer Lee

10:18

And Graeme when you’re working people how do you set your homeowners expectations when it comes to this showcasing the longevity of how as opposed to all the sexy features that everybody wants. No one thinks about the foundation. Everyone’s like I just want to get to the park where I get to pick out my marble. I get to pick out my lighting fixtures.

• Graeme

10:35

Well, we do a lot of renovations in addition to new projects new custom homes and so forth, so renovations people obviously start with things like I want a new kitchen, or I want to open up the family room I want to create better use of space. Maybe they’re adding a basement suite. They always talk about those functionality things. They’re surprised that in our first meeting I’m talking about doing inspections on the house and I do drainage inspections with camera, I do a roof inspection with a certified roofing inspector, we do mechanical inspections, we do a complete report on well what do you have to work with here and what are the things that you need to do to have longevity in your home that you put the kitchen into, that you put your basement suite into. So, we offer that up front, we encourage people to do that up front.

• Graeme

11:21

We do an energy audit on 99% of all of our renovations. And again, it’s not mandatory, except in Vancouver – the City does make it mandatory for an energy audit for a renovation over $20,000, which I think is really great, that should be adopted. And it just helps people have a baseline at the very least. They have a baseline to know what do I have and what should I be looking to improve on long-term and we always talk about developing maybe a five-year plan and you don’t have to get it all done at once and breaking it down into sections but we always start with the envelope of the house. We talk about energy efficiency; we talk about comfort and building a home, so you don’t need a heavy heat source or a cooling source that the house is self-sufficient.

• Bryan

12:05

It’s that idea of going to the doctor and getting a physical before you get a nose job.

• Mike

12:11

Because why does it matter?

• Bryan

12:12

You’re not setting the foundation. No, at the end of the day, and in the last number of years, I think as I get older and I have more and more kids and they start to look at me thinking, well, I’m going to have to buy a house one-day Dad. You know, wink. And I’m like, well, don’t look at me.

But you start thinking about it, and what are we going to leave in our wake as builders as far as the quality? And then, Graeme hit the nail on the head. We’re now in the mindset where you want to do renovations. Well, first, let’s do an energy audit, and let’s do an inspection.

Let’s see what needs to be fixed before we pull out the paint and the countertops.

• Jennifer Lee

12:44

But people don’t want to start with the steps. They want to get to the fun part.

• Bryan

12:47

Unless you explain the math to them.

• Mike

12:49

Well, let’s talk about how we can fix this then and I gave you a little bit insight first. I’ve only been in this industry for about six years. One of the most shocking things, the most startling things is that a lot of the homes that we see around us were only built for about 30 years. So first of all, we’re living in a disposable society and second of all as you mentioned both, we weren’t building them correctly in the first place. So, let’s talk about how to change the process around to create longer-term homes because there’s a saying, a smart building is the one that lasts. It’s not based on technology, it’s not based on how pretty the wallpaper in the bathroom is, it’s how long it lasts. And if we contrast this to like in Europe, where 500 years, they’re like, oh, okay, about it’s time for a refresh, whereas here, like, they’re just going to bulldoze it. How do we fix this problem, fix our affordability crisis in the process?

• Bryan

13:36

I think it’s a big, you know, it starts with education. And I think we’ve started that ball rolling. And I think, you know, builders like Graeme and My House have, you know, started that as well. And more and more people are starting to understand it. But I think it really boils down to math.

You know, a lot of people don’t understand maybe the technical aspects, if you, you know, if you throw everything on a page. But if you break it down into understandable, you know, sound bites that they can. And it’s doing the math. Again, if you can, I use an example where if I gave someone $100,000 to renovate their home in order to sell it, you know, for more, what would they spend the money on? And still, the vast majority of people, their answer is kitchen, bathroom, basement. Because those are very visual, tangible things in the market. But when you start to explain, well, you know, a $50,000 shingle roof today, instead of a $100,000 on a standing-seat metal roof that will outlast all of us, when that comes time to replace that, it’s not going to be $50,000, it’s going to be $80,000 or $100,000. And when you have to replace it again, it’s going to be $150,000 or $200,000. Versus upgrading insulation in your walls and saving maybe $200 or $300 a month. Well, in 10 to 15 years, when energy costs double or triple, you’re now saving three times that amount.

So, the savings are exponential as we go forward, and costs increase. The costs of long-term maintenance and operating a home are exponential. So, if you show that delta in costs, it’s either you’re paying your bills and you can look at those savings as passive income from your home, invest them properly with compound interest. And for most people, the math works out that by the time you pay your mortgage off, you’re a multimillionaire.

• Bryan

15:14

So, if you start selling that idea to people, or there are some clients as well that just dismiss all of that and say, well, I want, here’s my budget and here’s what I want. And we’re seeing a lot of builders now that mandate, this is the way we build. If you still want the granite and the marble and the high-tech stuff, let’s build your house a little bit smaller. And you can still have those things, design it open concept, design it that you can live in it with kids, you can live in it as empty nesters, you can live in it as you get older and it’s accessible, and start showing the math to people. I think that makes the most sense. And these kinds of things, unfortunately, have to be mandated because the masses don’t always make the best choices.

• Jennifer Lee

15:53

And I think shifting that mindset, showing them the numbers, because that’s the thing is everybody wants a bigger house because they look at what their friends have, and they want to keep them. Like, oh, I haven’t made it to have a five-bedroom house. It’s like, well, you might not need a five-bedroom house, but it’s trying to like to change that mindset.

• Bryan

16:09

Yeah. And it’s great to have a Lamborghini unless you can’t afford to insure it and put gas in it. And I find now as we’re educating our kids more and more on finances, you know, I said to my son, Quintin, he wanted to get into the boat rental business in the Bahamas. I said, I’ll support you. And he starts sending me photos and listings of million-dollar boats. And I said, Quinton, here’s a $10,000 Boston Whaler. Let’s do proof of concept and let’s make this work and we’ll add on the next thing. And I think it really comes down to education. There’s no such thing as predatory lending. There’s no such thing as all of this stuff. It’s irresponsible borrowing. It’s living beyond our means. And we have to change that because what it’s created is a society that is heading back into the feudal system where those 80% of young Canadians have given up on homeownership. But not only that in the near future, they won’t be allowed to buy a home no investment corporation or international fund or you know multi-family homeowner is going to sell a cash-flowing asset to anyone. It just it doesn’t it doesn’t make sense. So, we’re putting ourselves into a position where homeowners and the average Canadian at some point in the very near future will not have the luxury to decide how they want to renovate, how they want to build, what colour it is, because you won’t own the property. So, unless we change this now and put real assets and build real assets as homes, long-term, multi-generational, and people understand that value and can see it on paper. We’re just headed in the wrong direction.

• Mike

17:41

Okay, so let’s dig on how we can enhance the value of those homes so we can turn the tide back and solve some of these problems because what you’ve just spoken about is on the minds of a lot of people. I’m worried about whether my kids will be able to afford to buy in this time zone. So, let’s talk about how to fix it.

• Bryan

17:58

Well, you’re just going to give them your house, aren’t you? That’s what my kids think is going to happen.

• Mike

18:02

They can’t stop growing, maybe.

• Jennifer Lee

18:03

Mike, did you want to make a multiplex and have different units for them?

• Mike

18:06

Well, that’s the plan, yeah.

• Bryan

18:07

Well, apparently, you’re having more.

• Mike

18:08

Yeah, apparently, you’re having more.

• Jennifer-Lee

18:09

How many kids?

• Mike

18:10

I have three.

• Bryan

18:11

You have three.

Mike:

• Mike

18:15

Yeah, but they’re teenagers now, so it feels like eight.

• Bryan

18:16

I’ve got four, but we figured out the problem.

• Mike

18:19

Yeah, the problem is I didn’t stop at two. I love my kids. They’re just at that loud stage. So, as we’re talking about our own home, we’re looking at a lot of this stuff anyway. So, let’s talk about it.

• Mike

18:31

And there’s three things I think that I’d like to have you guys talk about. The first is ICF for basement concrete area. So, my home was built in 1981, they dug a hole, they put mold, they poured the concrete, you touch it, it’s cold.

• Mike

18:45

That shouldn’t be the case anymore, right?

• Graeme

18:47

No, it shouldn’t. So, we just finished a laneway for a family. It’s net zero. Its platinum built green, and we started with a crawl space. Because they are only limited to a certain amount of square footage for this laneway the crawl space, we did ICF, and we did everything is set up so that all their mechanical system is in the in the crawl space It’s easy access through a hatch. They can do proper storage, and it starts there. So even in a laneway, that’s not the norm.

• Graeme

19:16

That’s not what’s taught and so that had to come from an education of that particular client of what they wanted long term and happens to be for one of their family members. So, they wanted long term, and they barely have any energy costs for that for that unit completely.

• Bryan

19:29

That’s a great sales feature. There is an increased capital cost to do ICF or to you know form and pour conventionally and you know use a two-pound poly spray foam there’s a increased capital cost up front for that but if you then as part of the sales package can put down however you know $250 a month is not going out the window to operate this you know and you can show that over long term you know whether investment or savings or whatever it is and the increase over the years with the capital cost, these things start to make sense day one.

• Mike

20:06

Well, now I think you can’t do with a business case, the one thing you can’t articulate is how comfortable that house is going to be for the duration of ownership too. Math doesn’t matter if your house is too hot or too cold, it’s too hot or too cold.

• Graeme

20:19

I gave the example of a new build, so we just finished a 1908 heritage renovation that had a five-foot basement. We lifted the house, put a brand new two-bedroom suite in, all done with ICF, and then lowered the house back down onto those walls. So, whether we’re adding onto a house, whether we’re renovating a home in the case of where you need a new foundation, new crawl, or whatever it might be, or you’re building a new home, you can incorporate ICF technology.

• Jennifer Lee

20:43

And the building envelope needs to be sound as well just like the windows and everything a part of it. I live in a 1940s building. Windows are terrible. They’re kind of like the windows here. It feels like a windstorm is coming through. So, I don’t think people realize that oscillation is like very important. There’s word on the street is out-solation is the new insulation. Can you explain?

Bryan

21:08

Like an IFC system like an exterior insulated finishing system. So, it’s interesting you mentioned the windows. I use an example occasionally where if you’re in the prairies in the middle of winter and it’s minus 50 or whatever it is, would you choose a bag of pink insulation or a roll of vapor barrier?

If you could have one of those things. Windows, I mean, the glass doesn’t leak. The finish around the glass, the way it’s insulated, the way it’s sealed. Even older windows can be relatively efficient if the opening itself isn’t leaking. It’s a huge area of heat loss. Rim joists is another big one in those areas.

Looking at that and having that option if you don’t want to rip everything down inside the building and do, you do have the option of doing the ecosystem outside by insulating the exterior of the building and air sealing that properly and increasing the efficiency of the building in itself without disturbing everything inside. It’s not maybe necessarily always the best option, but it’s more affordable than completely emptying your property. It’s like basically putting a nice big blanket around your home. So, yeah, there’s lots of systems out there. Rockwell is a great system. There’s polystyrene exteriors, there’s lots of different systems for them on the outside and you’re seeing it not just in renovations where you don’t want to disturb but you’re also seeing it in new construction and even multi-use and the six-story wood frame buildings that are going up for condos and so they’re doing out insulation as well because with the new step code here in BC it’s hard in a 2×6 configuration to use standard insulation. So, by adding the outside insulation, you’re able to still do your plumbing on the exterior wall, for example, but still have that house wrap and so forth. So, there’s lots of examples.

• Jennifer Lee

23:01

I need to put a big blanket around my apartment building because it is freezing all the time.

• Graeme

23:05

But you can’t change it.

• Mike

23:06

We’ll buy you a sweater.

• Bryan

23:07

Oh, thank you.

• Jennifer-Lee

23:08

I need a better heater.

• Mike

23:09

Actually, what we need to do right now, is you know what we should do actually, we should take a couple minutes to thank our amazing sponsors, and we’ll come back in continuous conversation. So, if you guys can hold off for just a couple minutes, we’ll be right back.

• Jennifer Lee

23:24

Measure Twice, Cut Once is grateful to our podcast partners FortisBC, BC Housing, and Trail Appliances. Support from our partners helps us share expert knowledge and resources with families looking to build, design, and renovate the home right for you. For BC Housing, creating access to housing solutions that meets everyone’s needs is a guiding principle. BC Housing is working with governments, non-profits, and residential construction industry members to create practical solutions to BC Housing challenges. To learn more about BC Housing initiative programs and services, go to www.bchousing.org .

And we all need reliable and efficient equipment for better comfort, health and safety of our homes. Whether you want to adopt some energy saving habits or take on a major energy efficiency upgrade, FortisBC can help you save energy. Be sure to visit www.FortisBC.com where you can also find amazing tips on low and no cost ways to save energy plus great information on what FortisBC is doing on low carbon energy with solutions such as renewable natural gas.

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• Mike

24:43

All right. Welcome back. We were having a really good conversation before we took a break about some of the elements in a home to help stop this trend of homes that aren’t valuable, that homes that people won’t be able to buy, and that homes that are essentially disposable. So, talking a little about some of the things like ICF and envelope construction and windows, let’s turn our attention to some of the things inside of the home. Of course, we’re talking about mechanical systems and HVAC, renewable energy, solar, photovoltaic. Can you guys give us your perspective on that because we’re going from a time when we maybe had one source of energy for the home to so many different options and how do we balance all that and make the right decision for whatever projects we’re working on?

• Graeme

25:23

Well, if I could start by saying the house is a system. So, all those things do function together when you’re talking about adding insulation or making the house more airtight you also have to talk about what’s going on inside as far as ventilation and mechanical is a system. So, it’s you know people replace their furnace or they add a heat pump, but they aren’t necessarily addressing the rest of the system. So, once you understand that you need to think through all those components and how they interact together and like Bryan said you know you can put in a new furnace and you know and have a more energy-efficient heat source but if the house is a sieve of energy, then you’re just throwing money out the walls anyways.

• Bryan

26:07

You’re pouring more water into the strainer. So, I think you have to look at the envelope first. And again, a great example, and I love to teach by metaphor to the average homeowner that doesn’t get the technical part. I say, build it like a Yeti cooler. You can put your beer and your ice in there and two weeks later you have a cold beer, and you still have some ice. Or you can build it like one of the Canadian Tire foam coolers and leave the lid off and by lunch you’ve got warm beer. So, you know if you build that envelope correctly the amount of energy you need to heat and cool that home is almost nil. We built a 6,000 square foot custom in place of a 900 square foot bungalow that was single pane windows and mold in the basement, asbestos in the attic, and a 1960s furnace. Then it cost us $500 a month on average to heat and cool that home. The new 6,000 square foot bungalow was less than $50 a month.

• Jennifer-Lee

27:09

Wow.

• Bryan

27:09

And again, it was, you know, we spray foamed under the slab, two by six wall construction, all spray foam, spray foam in the attic, spray foam outside the foundation. Of course, had the HRV and air exchange in there, but our furnace never turned on. You know, it was harder to cool the home in the summer than it was to heat it in the winter, because a lot of those appliances as well are releasing heat constantly, cooking in the back of your fridge. That would keep the home warm and comfortable.

So, you know, there were often times in the winter where we’d crack a window to get some fresh air in. So that’s the idea. You have to build, you know, all of the other things. And people talk about putting solar on the roof. And again, it’s that pump and the boat with the hole in its idea.

If you build your boat without a hole in it, that solar becomes a revenue generator for you. If you put the solar all over the roof and you put the pump and you still get the hole, it’s just offsetting the loss, which farther in the future will become more and more and more expensive to operate. So, the idea, you know, anytime you look at the building envelope or the mechanicals inside, it’s about reducing the amount of energy you need to use, which by the way, you know, for the past 10, 15 years, we get so much green marketing. Green, green, green, green. I look at green as green. You know, $20 bills. The more money you can save operating and replacing things on your home and maintaining things long-term on your home, the less impact you have on the environment, the less energy you’re using, the less materials you’re replacing, the more money in your pocket. So, it’s green. Everybody gets green. It’s great.

• Jennifer Lee

28:45

Well, and you just hit it a little bit earlier, the fact that people will get solar panels or do other type of things that are supposed to be eco-friendly, but if their home isn’t built properly, they’re just kind of adding to the problem.

• Bryan

28:58

Just another pump.

• Jennifer Lee

28:59

But everyone’s like, oh, well, I got to get a heat pump because everyone’s getting it, but it’s like, do I have other problems in my house?

• Bryan

29:04

Like what time, my mirror, or how old’s my kid? Like Graeme said, the energy audit on your home, before you do anything, will identify very clearly where am I throwing money out the window. And nobody will drive down the highway throwing money out the window.

But we do it sitting at home. So, it’s really important to look at that.

• Mike

29:25

And we see heat pumps in other areas too. There’s a house we worked on, a large mechanical room, and we expect a heat pump in there to recirculate that air to mitigate the heating and cooling cost because it wasn’t a net zero home. So, there’s things we can do.

• Mike

29:37

Now for our viewers and listeners, quick shout out. There’s a great HAVAN Master Sessions episode on our YouTube channel with Mark Rosen of Building Knowledge walking through all of our systems and all of these systems in depth. So as great as it is to talk to folks like yourselves, they’re going to do a little bit more of a deep dive with you. So, if you want to learn more about this area outside of what Bryan and Graeme are talking about, check out Mark’s episode for sure.

• Bryan

30:05

Okay, we’ll- It does sound great, because there’s so many different systems and you need to understand them and make them work together.

• Jennifer Lee

30:10

It’s hard, like I come from a building family, but this is not what I do daily. And I even find that like, oh, there’s so many things that I need to understand, especially during this podcast. So, I love that there’s so many great resources that you can learn from and YouTube as well.

• Bryan

30:23

On the green note, it’s interesting. We have this mentality in North America that you order some solar panels, and a truck shows up and you open the box, and you pull them out and you think somewhere, someone is planting a tree and cleaning up a river and saving a dolphin. But the reality is those products have, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So, somewhere there is a city with a river on fire from the heavy metal production the production of those implements those materials that we don’t consider that cost you know in general in the bigger picture we just pull them out we think this is great it’s free energy well no we have we do have a cost to pay it’s it just may not be in our backyard or next door but it’s somewhere and you know unless your home is efficient already there’s really no net benefit when you do the math on those.

• Jennifer Lee

31:17

That’s a whole other topic. I was just discussing this with someone that was an impact company, and they said greenwashing is such a big thing, especially in the home industry. As you know, it’s like, yes, we want to do better. We have things in place here in Vancouver, like the step code to get us up to more energy-efficient homes and more homes that are going to be better for the planet, longer lasting. But the problem is, there’s so many things out there in the home building industry that’s like, buy this and you’ll be green. And everyone’s like, I’m greener, I’m saving the planet.

• Bryan

31:45

It’s like, I think a lot of people glaze over when you start to heavily sell them on green, you know, green, eco, all these taglines that have come up, you know, people just kind of glaze over and they’re like, oh, I’ve heard enough of this. But if you say, well, green is a $20 bill that bill, that they perk up all of a sudden. What? If you spend this so that you can spend less and consume less and replace less, all of a sudden, you’ve got money in your pocket. There’s your green, but ultimately at the end of the day it means you’re using less fossil fuel, you’re using less energy, you’re replacing materials less often. So, you’re having a benefit to the environment, but you’re also receiving that benefit of cash.

• Mike

32:24

Let’s stay on that topic. That’s a very important topic, right? Because you know what BC stands for, right? What’s that? Bring cash. Bring cash. Yeah, yeah. I knew where you were going. Graeme, I want to defer to you. And this is partly because I want to build a place, but partly because we want to make it easier for everybody to build a place. We know there are grants. We know there are loan programs. We know there are rebates. Can you talk to a little about them as far as why you’d want to take advantage of them and what?

• Mike

32:53

What rationale there is for doing one methodology over another in that process that you’re working through?

• Graeme

32:59

Well, first of all recognize that programs do come and go and they change and so for 25 years I’ve been doing programs or being part of whatever the rebate programs, utility programs, government incentive programs have been available over the years and it starts by doing an energy audit and with a qualified energy advisor can guide you through those programs. So, we guide people what’s available based on the choices you’re going to make for your home. But right now, I mean, there are a lot of things available. We have a $40,000 interest-free loan when you’re doing many energy upgrades to your home. Most of the grant rebate and loan programs are directed to people renovating their homes, not for new builds.

So, with the exception of solar power, everything is directed towards increasing the energy efficiency of your existing house, which is great. But there’s also programs for special needs. For example, there’s programs if you’re putting a basement suite in, a legal basement suite. There are programs also for if you have a family member over the age of 65 and you’re building a suite for them or you’re doing any medical upgrades in the house including better air quality for someone who has respiratory issues. Jennifer Lee

34:37

So, there’s not just about energy efficiency, there’s those types of programs available as well. And you have to be careful like you alluded a little bit to it as well because I know sometimes recently as well they’ll have the rebate programs out there but you might not qualify it or they’ll get somebody to do the work and then all of a sudden they won’t get the rebate so it’s very important to have  a builder that knows what they’re doing to guide you in the rebate process.

• Graeme

34:41

Yeah, there are lots of little caveats like the product has to be very specific to what’s been approved for the rebates and also who’s doing the work. They need to be on the approval list. So, working with a certified builder, renovator, who actually is on the list and has that availability to them as we do with our team, that’s the first step.

• Mike

35:03

Bryan, I got a question for you. Of all these things we talked about, and there’s so many different areas, if someone’s thinking about doing a renovation for their house, we always deal with constrained budgets here.

• Mike

35:12

All the things we talked about, what would you, in your opinion, be the most important one for a homeowner to consider?

• Bryan

35:19

Well, it’s interesting. There is a way to stick to your budget 100% of the time, and it’s very simple. It is do the important work and be willing to compromise on the finishes. So do the important work to save money on your home and make it more efficient. I always say do the more permanent things first. They are the priorities. You know, when it comes to going over budget or what we should I say to people, let’s do the important work here on the insulation, what have you. Nobody rips their kitchen out the cabinets to upgrade insulation in five years, but you can do that first and upgrade your cabinets later. You know, they’re easy to pull out and change. You know, leaving your existing appliances, your fridge, freezer, all that kind of stuff for later. That’s something you can pull right off the budget the countertop You know it’s I’ve rarely seen a marble countertop come out in one piece But you can save the money there and do laminate and not worry about it when you’re ready to replace it So the focus for me you know always first and interestingly enough over eight or nine seasons of leave it to Bryan, which was a you know we kind of made a joke to create that show. During disaster DIY, I walked into a house with single pane windows and a leaking roof and the whole thing. The guy said, I want a man cave in the basement. I said, you need a roof and windows and insulation. I kind of made a joke and said, you know, I would love to walk into these houses, just take their money, take their keys, and throw them out in the backyard. We create a series around that. People ask, how do you decide what to do? For me, right off the bat, it’s health and safety are number one. After that, it comes down to efficiency, longevity, and affordability.

And the very last thing is what colour are we going to paint it? What kind of backsplash are we going to put in? So do the things now, spend the money now to reduce the operating costs and the long-term maintenance costs of your home. Look at that savings as passive income, invest and use those to upgrade the cosmetics going forward.

• Jennifer Lee

37:17

Well said. And another thing that we want to ask you, we already kind of discussed this back in episode 42 when we had you on, but always love to get everybody’s opinion.

• Bryan

37:24

What episode are we on now?

• Jennifer Lee

37:26

I don’t know. I think like we’re in the 60s or something. I don’t know. We’ve been doing this for a while. But is, what should you look for when hiring a builder from your advice?

• Bryan

37:37

I mean, there’s a lot. It boils down to you know one very simple thing. Once the homework has been done and you know Graeme has been part of our bumper proof contractor program for a long time that ensures you know that everybody is licensed, insured, is covered by comp, has great trade references and a history of good work and all of those things have to be there. You know that file has to be full of all the paperwork in the background and make sure you protect yourself from liability and make sure you protect yourself from you know hiring that someone that just decided yesterday to become a home builder. But at the end of the day what’s really important is that you sit down with someone, and you connect with them and talk to them and trust them. You know I’m often asked after I walk through my home with a with a builder or a contractor what questions should I ask them? And my honest answer is, and if you’ve ever walked through a property with Graeme, you know you shouldn’t have any questions. You know, this should be somebody that walks through and explains everything to you and says, here’s what we’re going to do, here are the options, you know, we have an issue over here that’s going to cost an extra $30, here’s where we can save that money. You want someone that’s going to provide you with all the information that has, you know, as Graeme and my house do, have the understanding of the grants and the current codes and the step code and the process and the great suppliers and subcontractors. You want that person that is not in it for the money, right up front, they’re in it to be in it. This is their livelihood, and they want to continue it. But the most important part of it is that connection between the people. It’s the same as choosing a partner or a spouse. You have to have that open line of communication, that trust, and just like when you go to the doctor, you have to at some point sit back and say, you’re the doctor.

• Jennifer-Lee

39:23

You’re like, sorry, I wouldn’t want to do any doctor stuff on my own. You know, WebMD does not help you guys. That’s the worst.

• Bryan

39:30

I mean, that’s like watching those reno shows on TV. It’s the worst. Those shows.

• Mike

39:34

There are commercials where a lot of things happen that you don’t get to see. We’d like to hear more about those when you come back. So, you know, one of our favorite parts of hosting this podcast is getting to talk to great people like yourself and Graeme. One of our least favorite parts of holding this podcast is when the conversation ends. And we’re almost at that point, but we’d be remiss if we didn’t summarize some of the great information. This could have gone on for three hours and we still wouldn’t have talked about all of it, but you guys did a really great job of encapsulating, you know, some really important considerations for homeowners. We talked about good bones and that correlation between affordability and sustainability when it comes to upgrading your home. I love the idea of talking about the house as a system, a complete system as opposed to a sum of components. Programs come and go, so work with someone who can help you get and take access, and you know use those programs and finally and I love this pick the important stuff and focus on the finishes later. Yeah, because that’ll make sure you’ve got the bones like we talked about and the foundation for lack of a better term to do pretty much anything else you want in that house for the duration of the home. So really appreciate the insight from both of you as always.

• Bryan

40:49

You got to write the book before you choose the cover art.

• Jennifer Lee

40:52

I guess I’m going to go delete all my pins on Pinterest.

• Bryan

40:55

It’s not and it’s interesting that is there that is you know what a lot of people think they you know more the more I talk across Canada the more people they kind of go Oh, well there go all my all my dreams. And it’s actually the exact opposite if you sell it properly if you build and renovate that home properly, it will pay for you to upgrade your kitchen every 10 to 15 years and put exactly what you want into it. And it won’t cost you any more than that old inefficient home that you can’t afford.

• Jennifer Lee

41:24

Very good advice. And which leads to my next thing, but you kind of already gave a great tip, but I might let you give one more, but I’ll pass it to Graeme first is one more tip for the homeowner right before we go. One more tip.

• Graeme

41:37

Well, Bryan talked about find people you can trust. You know, and that’s what I tell people you’re really looking to do is who can I trust to start the process and start the conversation with. So find a person or people that you can sit down and have a conversation at your kitchen table for a cup of coffee and talk about what you’re planning to do, what you’d like to do, what your have-tos are, what your wishes and your Pinterest is, and then have that same person be able to walk you through what you should do and what the priorities could be. And then pull all that information properly together and then make good decisions.

• Jennifer Lee

42:10

Great, I won’t be deleting my Pinterest account then. So, we’re good to go. One more tip from you. I don’t know, it doesn’t even need to be a building tip. Do you have any like a lotto number to pick?

42:20

I don’t know.

• Bryan

42:20

A lotto numbers. No, I have a great one actually. Are you living in the Bahamas, between Bahamas and Florida and traveling and after 20 years of shows and meeting people and building different businesses, I’ve realized one thing. The net result for every single person on this planet is the same.

So, if there’s something you want to do, a risk you want to take, a place you want to go, a business you want to build, do it today, start today. The Bahamians have a really interesting mindset. And you walk down the island, and you would see someone that may not own shoes and doesn’t have all the windows in their home and doesn’t have a floor in their home. And you say, good morning, how are you? And you immediately think, oh, what a stupid question. I mean, look, and their response is, I’m amazing because I woke up today and it’s a great you know it’s a great opportunity to have another good day. I think a lot of people get stuck in this woe is me everything is terrible you know if you wake up in the morning you are luckier than about 50,000 people that day. Sorry 50 million people so far this year so you know take advantage of that and go for it.

• Jennifer Lee

43:33

That’s some great perspective. That’s life advice. But he’s going to die, so do what you want.

• Bryan

43:39

I’ve been living under a palm tree too long.

• Mike

43:40

I love it. Well, on that positive note, it’s been a great conversation. What we really love about both of you is that you’re both incredibly candid, you tell it like it is, but you also break it down in a way that people like me can understand. Before we go, I have a little bit of housekeeping that once you’ve done those renovations or you’ve built that new house and you’ve put the ICF downstairs and done everything you were going to do, eventually you’re going to need to wander out to your backyard to cook something for your family. One of the easiest ways to do it is by winning the barbecue we’re going to give away. So, if you’ve just finished watching or listening to this episode, grateful, thank you for your support. Tell your family, tell your friends, and of course like and share this episode and you will be entered in a chance to win a Napoleon Prestige P500 stainless steel natural gas barbecue valued at $1,600 compliments of our fantastic podcast partners at FortisBC. All you have to do is go to www.havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce.

• Jennifer Lee

44:36

And for notes and links and everything mentioned on today’s episode, including resources shared by Bryan and Graeme, go to www.havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce . Thank you to Trail Appliances, FortisBC, BC Housing, Rami Films, Jpod Creations, and AI Technology and Design. It takes a team to build a home, and it takes a team to build a podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.