Celebrating his 2024 HAVAN Awards Single Family Builder of the Year award, Ryan O’Shea of Miracon Development shares the company’s philosophy for the single-family home and building community.
Listen to “Ep 67: Single-Family Builder of the Year” on Spreaker.
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Co-Host, Mike Freedman, AI Technology & Design
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Distributed by Black Press Media: Today in BC.
About the Speaker
Ryan O’Shea, President, Miracon Development
Ryan is the President of Miracon and holds a Masters degree in Business Administration, a Bachelor of Education, and Bachelor of Human Kinetics. Ryan has worked with Miracon since the companies first project (Prima) in South Surrey. Ryan is committed to ensuring Miracon builds and sustains a legacy that is anchored in creating exceptional quality homes and the most compelling customer service experience. In his free time, Ryan is a passionate Board member of the Langley Community Health and Hospital Foundation, President of Boxing Canada and Vice President of World Boxing. Ryan also serves on the Homebuilders Association of Vancouver Government Relations Committee. In 2020 Ryan was named by Business in Vancouver as one of the top forty business people under 40 years of age in Vancouver and in 2021 was named by Site Partners and On Site Magazine as one of the top forty construction leaders under 40 in Canada. On the weekend you’ll find Ryan hanging out with his wife and three children, out on the golf course or refereeing boxing. He says three words to describe working at Miracon are: excellence, family, and legacy!
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Check out photos of the project!
Here's the Full Transcript of this Episode
MTCO Ep 67 TRANSCRIPT
Jennifer-Lee
0:00
Hey Mike, we’re back with season 8 of HAVAN’s Podcast Measure Twice, Cut Once.
- Mike
0:07
Jennifer Lee, it is great to be back, great to be back in this beautiful studio and having another exciting season ahead of us. To look at award winning projects, there’s absolutely nothing better than learning from those people who have gone before us. And I have to tell you, we were both at an award ceremony a few weeks ago. How exciting to see all these amazing people win those awards and get the recognition they deserve. What an exciting time. I was going to say it was really exciting for me because you were there, you were nominated for some awards as well with a lovely team of people and it was neat to have my buddy there and being able to witness everybody that we talked to throughout many seasons win awards.
- Mike
0:46
Hey, the best part for me was watching all my friends and all these amazing people who are part of this awesome community win those awards. Nothing better than seeing the people you care about get the recognition they deserve. And to spend that night surrounded by the people in this industry. I mean, I’m a lot newer to this industry than the rest of you, but I feel so privileged and fortunate to be part of this industry because of one thing, and that is the people. What an amazing special group of people and what an honor and a privilege to be a part of that night and this season as we get to break it down with some of our award winners like today.
Like today and I always love it the awards too to see everybody dressed up, but we’ve got a stylish guy today as well not just in a regular contractor attire we’ve got Ryan today. Yeah, and welcome to Measure Twice Cut Once and also thank you for making sure I’m now the second best dressed guy in the room. You’re with a company called Miracon Developments and you’ve won a whole bunch of awards. Before we go too deep into the awards, can you tell me a little about yourself and a little about your company because we want to know who you are before we understand how you make the magic happen.
- Ryan
1:56
Absolutely. So first, thanks for having me. My name is Ryan O’Shea. I’m the president of Miracon Developments and we are a single and multifamily home builder. We build homes primarily in the Fraser Valley.
- Mike
2:07
Ryan, have you always been in construction?
- Ryan
2:10
No, that’s a good question. I actually started my career as a high school teacher.
Mike:
Oh, how did you get from high school teacher to construction?
Ryan
Long story short, I married into it, I guess, but I was a high school teacher for seven years. I taught in Surrey School District and then my wife and I decided we want to go back to school and do our MBA. So, we went back to school. We went to school in California, State Long Beach. We graduated with our MBAs and then I transitioned into the family business back in 2015.
- Mike
2:39
What type of courses did you teach?
- Ryan
2:41
So, I have a, my background, I have a kinesiology degree and a history minor. So, I was brought on as a PE and history teacher, but after I got my MBA, I actually went back and taught for one more semester and I taught accounting and marketing and business in Surrey as well.
- Jennifer Lee
2:56
Nice. Which school?
- Ryan
2:57
So, most of my teaching career was at Fleetwood Park Secondary and then I also taught for a semester at Queen Elizabeth.
- Mike
3:03
So, you’re a well-rounded guy and you got into the family business, but on the married side. For me, I come from a family that created a construction business. Did you feel that it was a little like jumping into your wife’s side of the business a little scary to work with your in-laws or no?
Ryan
Yeah, I guess not so much, and I say that because my wife’s on the development side of our business. So, we structured it in such a way that my wife runs the development division, my brother-in-law is the VP of finance and then I’m in charge of construction. So, although things overlap for the most part there’s some nice delineation and we work together day to day, but there’s some clear-cut boundaries. So, everything works really well.
- Jennifer-Lee
3:43
Good, and I’m sure you get people upset sometimes at the dinner table. Like my family is, my sister-in-law has nothing to do with construction and all we do is talk about construction when we meet as a family.
- Ryan
3:54
Yeah, we try our best, especially on family vacations, but undoubtedly, things always roll into the family business and what projects next and kind of where are we going in the next five to ten years.
- Mike
4:06
That just speaks to both of your families being in the right lines of work because if you love what you do You’re passionate about it, and you’re always talking about ways to improve the process That’s exactly what we want from people were buying houses from we want people pushing it and doing a better job We want people who are passionate about it. Who are not just going through the motions. So that’s nice to hear. And that probably layers in beautifully to the next part of our conversation.
- Mike
4:31
As we talked about, you guys want a heck of a lot of awards. I mean, it was basically you on stage and then you take a break and then they’ll let someone else come on and you back on stage and that’s awesome to see. Can you talk to us a little about how you taught, like we were just talking about sort of pushing the envelope and, and, and getting to that next level. How does that factor into winning all these awards that you’ve won? And maybe can you talk a little about some of the awards that you’ve won as well? Because these are really a big deal in our industry.
- Ryan
4:57
Sure. Yeah, I think at Miracon, we have our set of core values. I think two of the big ones is we pursue excellence. And the second and most important one is we create a memorable experience. And that memorable experience piece leans into the customer service side of things, which I think is critically important. Not only do you need to build a great product, but you need to take care of your customers. And so, I think we really push for quality craftsmanship, but on the back end as well, after the key turnover, we really lean into the customer service side of things as well. And I hope those two things of what separated us in many respects within our industry to both build a good product, but also provide a compelling homeowner experience for our buyers.
- Jennifer-Lee
5:34
And like you said, you have a great team behind you as well. That’s important. It doesn’t take one person to build a home. It takes many. Yeah, I think, you know, especially on the development side, like before, on the construction side of things, before we even break ground, there’s a two, three-year process with our development team that works through rezoning, the development permit application, building permits, and then we take over. So, it is a team effort from beginning to end, both in development and the construction side.
- Jennifer-Lee
6:03
Let’s talk a little bit about Mirada Estates. Can you explain it to people? It’s won a ton of awards and nominations, and I just want to mention to you are a trifecta winner. You’ve won CHBA this year, Georgie’s and HAVAN’s.
- Ryan
6:18
I didn’t even know about the trifecta. We were at the provincial CHBA BC AGM and Ron Rapp said good luck tomorrow with the trifecta and I had no idea what it was. So yeah, really excited about that. We’ve never had a national award and we’ve been applying for a few years and there’s just so much talent across the country. So, to get that, finally get the national recognition was really nice.
- Jennifer-lee
6:37
It’s like an EGOT.
- Ryan
6:38
Yeah.
- Jennifer-Lee
6:39
You’re an EGOT winner.
- Ryan
6:39
But to answer your question, so we’ve been really lucky the last few years, I guess at regional and provincial level to get recognition for our projects. Currently we’re building a 55-unit single-family subdivision called Mirada Estates. That’s located in the township of Langley in the community of Latimer and it’s a beautiful single-family project. We have 2,800 square feet to 3,300 square foot rear load detached and attached homes and all of that’s kind of anchored around a five-acre community detention pond.
- Mike
7:11
So that’s actually nice to hear because we hear a lot, you know, you turn on the news, we hear a lot about a housing crisis and a lot of that housing crisis is as a result of just not having enough units. So, the fact you guys are building 55 more units for 55 more families is really huge. That’s a huge deal. What are some of the special thoughts that went into this particular project? Like tell me what makes this unique. It’s not just a bunch of houses in a row, right? What makes those houses so special?
- Ryan
7:43
Yeah, as I said, I think something that really distinguishes this community is the five-acre community detention pond. And so, to unlock this area, Miracon and our development team had to build this really beautiful landscape five-acre detention pond and that really anchors the Mirada community. And so, our 13 front load homes all back onto this beautiful green space, mountain views, and those are very special units within the community, and actually we’re really fortunate one of those homes is the 2024 P&E Prize home this summer. And so, we’ve partnered with the P&E, and they’ve selected one of our homes and that actually launches this summer. So really excited about that.
- Mike
8:18
I’m buying my tickets.
- Jennifer-Lee
8:19
There you go.
- Mike
8:21
So that’s one of your projects. There’s another project that we looked at some pictures called Aspire. Can you tell us a little bit about that because it also won an award for housing excellence and solutions and that one is in where’s that one located?
- Ryan
8:31
So that’s actually also in the township of Langley and that’s directly behind the Langley Memorial Hospital.
- Jennifer Lee
8:39
Great location, great location. So, what’s special about that particular project?
- Ryan
8:44
Yeah, that that’s an actually is a really special project and probably a project I’m most proud of. It’s a really unique story. So, I’m very fortunate to sit on the Langley Memorial Hospital Foundation Board. And this was a piece of land that the hospital foundation had owned for, I think about 20 years. And so, when I joined the hospital foundation board, there was discussion at a board level about how to better use this land. So, we went through a highest and best use study, and it was actually suggested that we sell the land, but that wasn’t part of the foundation’s vision for this piece. So, what we ended up doing is building 148-unit market rental for people age 55 plus. And the other piece about the project is 30% of those homes were allocated for low-income individuals. So, it’s a senior living, not a care facility, but a seniors living rental project and the best piece about that is upon being fully leased 100% of the revenue generated from that goes straight back into Langley Hospital for health care needs in Greater Vancouver.
- Jennifer-Lee
9:48
That’s amazing because I think it’s something that we don’t think a lot about because we just assume that everybody 55 plus has a lot of money to retire but then we always hear on the news that they don’t and we’re having a big crisis there but nobody’s really directing housing towards them because obviously there are so many different age groups that do need housing, but I do sometimes feel that they’re pushed to the side a little bit. So, I’m glad to hear that there are buildings being purposely built that are over 55 plus.
- Ryan
10:13
Yeah, it is a great initiative. I think we all recognize the need for various types of housing, both market and rental, but I think so often people 55 plus are left to the sidelines if they don’t live in a home, where are they going? And so, I think not only did this project help facilitate future health care needs and help provide funding for those needs in Langley, but it’s also addressing the need for housing for people 55 plus.
- Jennifer-Lee
10:39
And creating that community, because those people have probably lived there for a long time, and at 55 plus, you’re not going to really want to leave your community that you built up and start creating a new one. And that really feeds into mental health and everything of where you live. So, I think that’s great that you’re able to keep people where they like to be and around their friends.
- Ryan
10:58
Yeah, it’s a great point. And the majority of the people of Lease, and I think we’re about 90% Lease right now, live in Langley. And I think they want to live in place and be close to healthcare needs in the event that they need those. So, there is actually, it is a mixed-use building with a pharmacy on the first floor, and they are directly across from Langley Memorial Hospital. So, I think it checks a lot of boxes for people age 55 plus.
- Mike
11:18
I certainly think it adds into our accessibility and our aging in place conversation as well. And I love the fact that you’re solving the housing crisis and the healthcare crisis simultaneously. So, we’re going to talk about you running for office next, but first we have to take a two-minute break to thank our wonderful sponsors. So, we will be right back.
- Jennifer-Lee
11:37
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Mike
12:58
Welcome back. We’re chatting with Ryan and one of the things that we were chatting about was one of the projects that you guys did that won nine awards that was of course Mirada Estates. One of the interesting conversation points is this, in the housing market, and I know you know this, but our listeners let’s bring them up to speed. A lot of focus is on densification. So, towers, taking older lots and turning them into multiplexes. And of course, then we also talk about custom homes. That one forgotten but very essential part of the housing market is single-family homes. Single-family homes for normal working people. And I think Mirada Estates has done a very good job of doing two things. One, making them accessible and two, helping to bridge the affordability gap as well. So, can you talk to us in terms of how you see it affecting the housing continuum and how you’re addressing some of the challenges we face in the housing market in the lower mainland specifically?
- Ryan
13:56
Yeah, it’s a great question. And I think we keep continuing to have this conversation around densification, which is I think a key solution to solving our housing crisis. The other piece of this is I hear conversations around eliminating single-family zoning, which I think is a challenge because the single-family zoning, single-family homes are an aspirational product for a lot of people. And so, getting to build them for Miracon Development, it’s a huge privilege. And so, Mirada Estates is a really beautiful project. And what we’re seeing is a lot of upsizing families who are moving out of their condo or their townhouse because they need more space, or they want a newer product. The other thing we’re seeing is a lot of multi-generational families so we’re seeing in-laws and parents move in with their younger families and they’re making sure that they convert the basin into a one- and two-bedroom suite. Interestingly at Mirada Estates 100% of our homes so far and we sold 38 of our 55, 100% of them have been converted into one- and two-bedroom suites. Jennifer-Lee
14:58
That’s amazing because that’s another thing that a lot of people are looking for nowadays as a mortgage helper, especially as a young family. You want to be able to have help if you can’t get your in-laws in there, you want to be able to have some help towards your mortgage.
- Ryan
15:12
Yeah, so what most people tell us, it’s a mortgage helper, it helps them qualify or on the flip side it’s where their parents or in-laws are going to move into, which may also help with qualification for a mortgage, but it’s help with kids as the kids are young or as they grow up. So, we’re seeing a very high demand for conversion into one- and two-bedroom suites in all of our single-family homes.
- Jennifer-Lee
15:33
Or also too, like we were mentioning before, a lot of seniors aren’t able to live on their own because they are helping their kids out to get to that next level. So, it is nice that they can have the basement suite as well and live as one unit.
- Ryan
15:44
Yeah, and interestingly, we actually just sold a side-by-side home. So, parents moving into one, kids moving into the other and just one of their dreams is always to live side-by-side. But interestingly, both of those still converted into one- and two-bedroom suites for the mortgage helper. So, we’re seeing that demand and desire to both live in a single-family home, but also to convert into one- and two-bedroom suites for the mortgage helper or to have family live with them.
- Jennifer-Lee
16:08
But then you’re providing more housing for other people that are looking for a home because we know our rental rate is very low.
- Ryan
16:14
Yeah, and that’s the other flip side. I think when we talk about the mortgage helper, those people aren’t having family move in, obviously they’re renting out and providing more housing to the market. So, I would really personally hate to see single family zoning disappear because I think we’ve talked about an industry level so many times as single family goes so does the rest of the market and I think single family homes are still very aspirational for a lot of people. So, I would hate to see that disappear entirely.
- Jennifer-Lee
16:39
Yeah, I think that is a hot topic because I think we need all types of housing. I don’t think we’re a one size fits all and it’s so interesting because I also think the Western mindscape is a lot of people wouldn’t necessarily want to not have the single home, single-family home exists.
- Ryan
16:57
.Yeah, definitely. And I, you know, again, I’m fully in support of densification. I understand the intent of it, and I think it’s a big part of solving our housing crisis, but entirely eliminating single-family zoning as an aspirational product where people want to move and raise their families in, I also don’t think is the right solution to this problem.
- Mike
17:16
I just like it because, you know, we hear this all the time, especially from people under 40, oh, it’s so hard for me to buy now compared to when you got in the market. It is and it isn’t because the idea, like you couldn’t get houses with legal suites 10 or 15 years ago. So, there wasn’t the option of mortgage helpers. There wasn’t the option of, you know, a sixplex where you could buy one of it for less than a regular house. So yes, housing is definitely more expensive. That’s just the way things are in the world. But some of the options that you’ve created in your projects have created a path to help those people who might not have otherwise been able to afford a home of their own, have their own backyard for all their events and all their memories and everything else like that. So, kudos to you guys. Um, can you talk to us a little, when you create any kind of project, whether it’s one that’s won a lot of awards or just a standard project, how do you guys approach the idea of creating a sense of community? Because anyone can put a row up of homes. How do you create a community where people get out, talk to each other, interface with their neighbours, look out for each other, right? That’s not an accident. How does that happen?
- Ryan
18:21
It’s a good question. I think, you know, it starts first and foremost with the right consultants. You want to build a beautiful community where people want to live. And so, we partner on the architectural side with Mike Seaman Designs. We have Sarah Brown from Brown & Code does our interior design. And working with the right consultants to make sure the project reflects your brand is a big piece of that. I think the other piece comes on the customer service side, like making people believe they’re part of community. And that starts with the Miracon team from the key handover and afterwards making sure that our community gets to know one another and so one of the things we do both at the Midway Point and upon completion is we hold a barbeque, so our last townhouse site was called Foundry once everyone had moved in we had a hundred and six units we threw a huge barbeque both to thank everyone for purchasing a home from Miracon but also to provide an opportunity for people to meet one another and to just kind of solidify that sense of community within the Miracon project.
- Jennifer-Lee
19:19
I think it’s so important because that’s the one thing a lot of us are losing and I don’t think it’s just a Vancouver thing. I’ve even heard this; I was just in London. A lot of people are saying you just lose that sense of community of who your neighbours are and then somebody I know who used to live in Toronto, we were talking about porch culture in Toronto where everyone hangs on their porch and they know their neighbors and they talk about that. But we’re missing that here. So, I’m glad that you guys are bringing it back.
- Ryan
19:43
Yeah, and I think the porch culture is an interesting kind of spin-off because it’s harder to do. I find it harder to do with single family homes because a lot of the time people are separated, and they want their privacy. It seems easier to me to build and reinforce that community in a townhouse site where you are able to pull everyone together, have a barbecue and kind of start the project off on the right foot so people understand they’re moving into a community. I think we’re going to work really hard to do that upon completion of our single-family site as well, but that porch culture is something I think is kind of missing out here in BC.
- Jennifer-Lee
20:14
We need to bring porch culture back.
- Mike
20:19
So, I want to say something here and just to stick with me. So, before getting into this business, my perception of the construction industry was a little bit different. And I think if you ask the average person who’s on the outside looking in, the perception of a developer isn’t necessarily as positive as it should be. Yet, we’ve just spent the last 10 minutes talking about fostering a sense of community, helping with densification, helping with a hospital to be able to offer better care.
Helping for seniors to have a sense of community. So that’s obviously not the case. Now, you guys won a Grand HAVAN Award. You don’t just win that for building high quality homes or great design. You win that for being part of a community and for leadership in a community. I’d really appreciate it if you could talk about some of the things your company has done from a leadership perspective in our industry. Because not only has it humanized you as a developer, creating communities, but it’s also solved some problems. And I’d love for people to hear about what you guys do and what you value in your role in the community that led to winning this prestigious honor.
- Ryan
21:31
It’s a good point. And I do think developers and builders often get a bad rap and I think you know platforms like this allow us to humanize the industry and it’s not just Miracon there’s a lot of other great builders and developers out there who are actively involved in philanthropy and building the community outside of their townhouse sites and so Miracon does its best to be involved not only in the community we’re building but in the greater community and so as I mentioned I’m very fortunate to be on the Langley Memorial Hospital Foundation, help raise funds for the healthcare needs in greater Vancouver. Another thing we recently did, my wife and I and through the companies, we created a full ride academic scholarship called the Ignite Business Scholarship. And so, it was offered to a Surrey or a Langley student who was going to pursue business post-secondary. And two years ago, we presented that to a young man named Ethan Haggerty, who’s now at UBC Sour School of Business. And we are funding his full ride academic education. He has come and interned with Miracon in the summer, and now he’s working with Scotia Bank, pardon me, to fulfill his interim responsibilities. And we’ll see him through his four years of post-secondary education, and then renew the scholarship again.
- Jennifer-Lee
22:42
That’s amazing. It’s so nice to learn who’s behind the hammer, behind the development, because like Mike said, there are a lot of fictional misconceptions out there. I think being a daughter of a builder, a lot of the times developers or builders, you just think people are like, oh, you’re like Scrooge McDuck rolling around in the money, but that’s not the case. And we’re here to solve problems. That’s the thing is a lot of us have to put our hands in this housing crisis, or it’s never going to get solved. And then also have the humanity that you have behind you of helping other people, maybe it’s not in construction, but helping other people achieve dreams of being educated and having the experience at university.
So, I think what you do, no wonder you’re a Grand HAVAN Award winner because you have so much passion in what you do and it’s beyond just building. But I think that also comes from your teaching roots as well.
- Ryan
23:31
Yeah, and I think you bring up a good point. I think there’s so much uncertainty, market uncertainty, regulatory uncertainty right now. I think our buyers are very sophisticated and they see through whether or not you’re a sincere builder, whether or not you’re actually part of the community. And so, I don’t think you can fake that. You know, with technological innovations, people are able to do their old Google search. They’re able to find out who’s behind the builder. And I think you can’t get away with not being part of the larger community anymore. You have to invest in the community you’re building, and you have to invest in the larger community that you’re a part of.
Mike:
Well it’s one thing to invest and write a check it’s another to be actively involved and let’s be honest you’re a very humble guy you I’m going to say some of the stuff you’re involved in just because Boxing Canada your company’s don’t own to multiple hospitals and foundations the Ignite Business Student Scholarship you’re helping to change somebody’s life who in turn will hopefully pay it forward and be a future leader as well.
Startup funding for the Langley Rotary Lead Rib Fest. That’s a big one. Primary sponsor, Boxing BC’s Junior Youth Provincial Team. Coats for Kids, Port Moody Firefighters Charitable Society, Township of Langley Adopt-A-Road Foundation, Twins Cancer Fundraiser 2023.
So, this is just a whole lot of the stuff that this company and you and your team has spearheaded that has really led to creation of a community. Do you know my only regret in this conversation? We have to wrap it up pretty soon. We’re just getting into it, and it’s always the case, right? We’re just really digging in, and it’s like, oh, dang it, we’re out of time again. And I was just going to say, I’m going to give you mic services here.
- Jennifer-Lee
25:13
So, the next time you have a barbeque, because this man loves grilling, he can be the guy that grills all the meats at the Welcome Barbecue.
- Ryan
25:21
Absolutely.
- Mike
25:22
Awesome. I was smoking some meat for 24 hours in the parking lot of fire. So, we’re going to have to wrap up, unfortunately, but you know what I took away from this? What was a few things.
One, first of all, congratulations on all the awards you and your company have won. That’s a spectacular achievement and consistent achievement, and that speaks volumes. So, what you’ve built in the culture you built. The biggest thing I’m taking away from it though is the sense of how you as a developer approach creating a sense of community and you don’t just do it by creating nice neighbors. You do it by solving a bunch of problems and that to me is the best takeaway we can get from this is that you’re solving problems. You’re not building houses, you’re solving problems. You just happen to be building houses to facilitate the solving of problems. And kudos to you guys and congratulations for all the awards that you’ve won, the Trifecta, the Grand Haven Award, and just all the things’ you guys do in the community.
- Ryan
26:12
Thank you so much. And I think a big piece of all that is living your company’s values. Your core values can live on your wall and just stay there, or they can be embedded in the organization’s culture. And so, for us, that’s a big part of what we do. We really do want to build community, not just homes. And we want people to feel comfortable and proud of the communities they’re a part of.
- Jennifer-Lee
26:30
Love it. And I know you shared so much with us, but we love to ask people to give us one more little tip. Maybe it’s a boxing tip. I wanted to discover that one more tip for our listeners.
- Ryan
26:42
I guess from a home building and development related perspective, I think there’s so much uncertainty right now, there’s market uncertainty, there’s regulatory uncertainty, so I think you need to be able to adapt, you need to be able to learn and grow with the changing times, that’s one. Don’t stand still, and two, always lean into your strengths, whether that’s quality craftsmanship, it’s green infrastructure, it’s technological innovation or customer care, at all times, just lean into your strengths, do what you do best.
Mike
27:14
Awesome. That’s amazing. Thank you very much.
Speaking of leaning into your strengths, we want to lean into one more thing before we sign off. You were talking about having community barbeques. I’ve never had a better tie-in for the end of the show in eight seasons. So, if you’d like a barbeque of your own after the community barbecue is done, we’re giving you a chance to win one. All you have to do is like or share this episode for your chance to win a Napoleon Prestige P500 stainless steel natural gas barbeque valued at $1,600 compliments of our podcast partners FortisBC. To win it just go to www.havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce .
- Mike
27:50
You can win a new barbeque for when you purchase at the Mirada Estates. See there you go. Past seasons we’ve given away the barbecue and the picture’s always the same. The happiest, most beaten looking smile you’ve ever seen as they’re picking up the barbeque at the HAVAN offices.
- Mike
28:11
We’d like someone else to experience that level of joy.
- Jennifer-Lee
28:14
I know, Mike can’t win all the barbeques.
- Mike
28:16
He can’t win any of the barbecues.
- Jennifer-Lee
28:19
And for notes and links to everything mentioned on today’s episode, including resources shared by Ryan, go to www.havan.ca/measuretwicecutonce . Thank you to Trail Appliances, FortisBC, BC Housing, Rami Films, Jpod Creations and AI Technology and Design. It takes a team to build a home, and it takes a team to build a podcast.
Thank you so much for joining us.